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** Hi R, won't keep you just wanted to see how everything went with you yesterday with the grand jury.
Roger : Oh it went okay. They're trying to tell me --You can't buy stuff without money. I said, "I know. There isn't any money!." You see I just had to hold their nose and give them some caster oil. (chuckles)
** So you talked about some of this stuff?
Roger : Yeah, I gave them 300 drafts and pretty soon they didn't want to call them sight drafts. They thought they could call them something else.---yeah, my own business authorizations… that's what they're called!
** You gave them 300 drafts that you've used…sent out. Different ones that you've sent out?!
Roger : Yeah… Ones that I've used and not only that but the correspondence that I used with them so you can identify the drug dealers on the other end.
** The ones that would not adjust their books on the other end?
Roger : Right! And I told them "Now you see you guys are catching them delivering the property into the hands of the confederates. You better go to work on it because I'm filing involuntary bankruptcy action that is going to follow this up here if you don't get it done."
** On them or their organization?
Roger : The organization of the people that are listed in there. I told them, "You guys are my bankers now, you better get busy."
** What were their faces like when you were telling them that?
Roger : Well I mean I had to be nice, but when they started their strong arm tactics I finally turned to him… See he didn't want to hear…. He tried to discourage me from the involuntary bankruptcy. He was saying things like "Oh! you threatening me?" and oh boy he backed down right away. I told him, in fact I gave it to him in writing that "This isn't a formal notice to you but this is what I was figuring on doing that if you guys want to get cute with me. That badge that you guys showed me is…is just a cheap disguise." That's a treasury agent badge. "It is just a cheap disguise that I don't appreciate. You're dealing with the Prince of Peace here." That means I'm suing them for peace.
** Wow, what were their faces like at that point when you told them they couldn't hide?
Roger : It went on from about 9:00 in the morning until about 1:30 in the afternoon. We didn't even stop for lunch… nothing.
** Was one an agent and one a supervisor or…
Roger : No they were both agents. They have to be special… they can't deal here with grand jury. But you see ..what they are, they are actually bankers. They are taking handwriting exemplars, voice exemplars, photograph exemplars and fingerprints. That's what they have to have to identify my authorizing something to come in to the treasury.
** Oh..Oh… So you gave those to them?
Roger : Hell yes I gave them to them. They've got to have them to identify me.
** Oh so they now know for a fact who the principal is… in fact?
Roger : Darn right they do! They had better be doing their homework because otherwise the action is coming.
** Wow! Okay so they were actually intimidated by the concept of the bankruptcy of these other organizations?
Roger : Oh yeah. I could tell that. They had all they could do there… see they are all so entrenched in their old interrogation methods that they had a hard time holding back from it. I kinda let a little of it slip because of that. When they thought that maybe I wasn't on top of it here I had to remind them.
** Did you let them know in essence that it was your procedure that was taking place?
Roger : Right and when it got to those drafts you see. When he didn't want to start calling them drafts I said, "Hey Buddy, these are the tools that I do my private business with. I had these printed… I had to take them back and proof read them and change them two or three times before we got the final draft." Then he said, "Well how did you pay for them?" I said, "I paid for them with a credit card." So you see… they are all batting zero here. They are trying to find a source of money here outside of something …
** Oh they are trying to lump you in with those people trying to create money from some other source of money.
Roger : Right, they've already done it. They say, "Well where does the money order come from?" "Well", I said, "you see, take a look at that draft there. It's got a little square on there. If it's a money order I just check that and it's pay to the order of the person whose name I put on there. It's not mine. Why? Because I attached the money order to this here and when I do that, see where it says attachment? That's where I identify. I use this for a lot of stuff."… It's my own private business. (Chuckles)
** As long as they can't suck you into the public they've got no jurisdiction..
Roger : Of course not. They have to operate for me or their name has to be on the warrant that issues from involuntary bankruptcy. Because the involuntary bankruptcy court is a criminal court.
** Oh it is? I didn't know that.
Roger : Well as soon as the Marshals get the summons it goes to warrants.
** You know…. I don't want to take you off subject, but the word warrant. I was told that before 1066 was William the 1st. The warrant only applied to property and the writ applied to people. And they tried to switch that after him when he brought the Shitar law from Europe…
Roger : But still it amounts to the same thing. The warrant is looking for the order. It's looking for the money…the property…whatever… see it's a search warrant. But you see when they find the person who has possession of it they take the person into possession. You see,-- because why? They're in violation of the order. It's the order that actually arrests them…
** Gotcha… and because the people they grab hold of for the most part haven't secured their straw man or don't even understand that they go right along with the property?
Roger : Oh yeah, that's just like when Hitler surrendered the mortgages to the prentice. If they didn't make the distinction, title went right with it.
** My gosh, actually if anybody had understood what was going on they wouldn't of been put in…
Roger : You might have been able to understand that if you'd ever read the book that Alexander Sogenechia??Phonetic (?) wrote of the Goolag Archapellago (phonetic) Well see in there he describes some of the administrative duties of the prison guards. In there it became evident to me what they were doing.
** Yeah he's a brilliant man. He probably saw… or he had insight into what was taking place…
Roger : Well yeah when he wrote the book he just describes the actual events that the guards weren't brutal or… well I'm not saying some weren't, but there were guards that did, what some would consider brutal acts, but it became evident to him, at least in some cases, that this was an administrative requirement. And you see what he did, was he took responsibility for what they would normally brutalize you for because he broke his glasses. Well he didn't break them, somebody else caused them to be broke. But he accepted the responsibility and said "yes I broke 'em because I let this guy here knock them off of me, but I broke them." He took the responsibility for them and that guy just marked it down in his ledger and went about making arrangements for him to get new ones. And I think some guy before him-- they either beat him or shot him. Relatively the same trip trifle.
** Oh it was really the way he handled it?
Roger : Yeah. It became evident to me that the guy was testifying against himself or taking everything literal.
** Right, cause in the prison state you said it's taken literal right?
Roger : Right--yeah, yeah. So that's where they prove out the standards.. to the nth degree. To the perfection. I had a guy from the Salvation Army, the fella that runs it….the head, John something, but his father was the one who originated the Salvation Army. Actually the Salvation Army now, they have rank with the Bureau of Prisons. See they are official…and they are officers of the bureau. He came in and he told me… See when I got out of prison, most of the guys that get out have to go to an orientation meeting at the chapel… getting ready for release and they have to go through the group orientation program. When I got called to the Chapel I had a personal audience with the head of the Salvation Army. He told me I was picked out because of one thing that my record showed it was very interesting how I looked at the military. See the Salvation Army is Army Core of Engineers.
** Oh they're connected?
Roger : Sure they are… they are all the same. It is the army post. So is the post office. So I told him I didn't have any problems with that. I knew that. But he said that years back that the re-legion or the belief in God and things like that had to brought down to a military precision. So that's why they do it the way they do. And he said he appreciated the position I had and the regard I had for the military position.
** So you saw it's purpose and you're saying the people when they rebel against it, they're not dealing with it properly the way God had intended them to ?
Roger : Course not….
** Like you said about the guy before Sogeneshia(? Phonetic) that got shot, he rebelled against it and in essence when he accused them he was testifying against himself, so they shot him?
Roger : Yeah they did…
** Sogeneshia took responsibility himself there were no charges flowing about so there was no reason for them to do anything about him.
Roger : And I had a deal just like that ..financially this morning. Sears Roebuck called me up…I had sent in a tool order way back in November and they didn't send it to me but I had paid for it apparently with a draft… I don't know… it must have been. But they didn't send me anything like that. So when I answered the phone and they're grilling me, this lady that got on the phone, she got my name and account number, she calls it up and discovers that they hadn't even delivered the item to me. You see I thought it was about the payment that I'd given them and they wanted to know how to route it. She said I don't know about that, but you didn't get the order? I said "No". - "Oh", she said, "I'll just mark it here "No charge" and I'll send it right out." (chuckles)
** Wow that's unbelievable… so they're going to ship it out and you should receive the goods shortly.
Roger : Yeah, she said she'd get them to ship it right out.
** And what was the purpose of them calling you?
Roger : Well I think it was to route the payment for it. It's probably to route the payment for something else, but it's been so long ago it would of come out on a billing and I would of given them a draft for the billing and things like that. See some of those earlier billings that I gave them I didn't give them my account routing numbers of the bank. So I was going to give her that.
** So you're putting those on your draft now is what you're saying?
Roger : Well I do when somebody calls for them. Lot of the stuff… they process it or else what they do, they actually zero my balance out and assign the debt elsewhere. It's just some attorney holding the debt someplace else.
** Okay you told me the other day when I spoke with you that the routing numbers are given by the Department of Treasury, right? The Treasury issues those numbers to the banks?
Roger : Basically that's the authority that the bank system is set up on.
** So how do you decipher or derive the routing number you are going to put on?
Roger : The bank puts it on.
** Oh so when you run it through the bank the bank puts it on?
Roger : No…no, you see you get it when you open an account with the bank and get your check book--with the bank.
** Oh then you're talking about getting the numbers for my commercial vehicle…the checkbook with routing numbers on it. Oh Okay! So are you use you personal checking account to make purchases still?…or do you use your documentary drafts?
Roger : I take the numbers …the routing numbers from the closed account and send them to them and if they have trouble sending them or sometimes I just give them the bank name and address.
** So they just check the bank for your name then?
Roger : Yeah. Some of them have done it that way.
** Doesn't your account end up getting debited then?
Roger : Oh I don’t care what they do with it. I just know that I get the merchandise and my current balance is zero. There is a lot of things they can do with it…
** You don't know each individual case…gotcha. You could have a list of possibilities that could apply but how it's used in each case there is no way to really know.
Roger : Not unless they tell me. And there have been some that have. Man I've had hundreds of these.
** So you took about 300 of these in to meet with these guys…did you leave them copies or did you take them back with you?
Roger : No I left them there with them and they're going to mail them back to me in a couple of days.
** Did they record you're meeting with them…and did they have a court reporter there also?
Roger : No… just the two agents. That was it. There was a tape recorder for part of it. It was just prepared script to read. See what they're doing, is they're taking voice exemplars… okay? So now if I call somebody and tell them here is the electronic funds transfer number… they want to know that I'm the one that gave it. If I'm not the one that gave it, it's not going to clear on the voice screen.
** Oh… what do you mean by voice screen?
Roger : All this stuff has got to have clearance to get into the treasury.
** So they are verifying it's you by your voice, picture, finger prints, signature…. All those things are verification of you being you? So now they can go ahead and process everything else they didn't process before because now they know it's you?…
Roger : Right
** Well let me tie something in to that and I'd like you to comment …
Roger : Before you do, I've got an invitation to attend the king's wedding…
** The King?
Roger : That's what it is…
** which king? Which king are we talking about?
Roger : I don't care because I'm the landlord!
** Are you talking about the church being the bride and Jesus Christ being the bridegroom… Is that the wedding you're talking about?
Roger : Of course! And I happen to be the landlord here and I'm invited to the wedding.
** Right that's the parable where Jesus says in Luke or Mathew, one of the two, where he said to go bring in all the wedding guests and when they won't come to go bring in all the other people then he talks about them having to be dressed properly when he brings them in to the…
Roger : Well you see the Lord of Lord and King of Kings… you see the King here represents the land and the Lord represents the sea. The body of Christ was penetrated with a weapon of a maritime soldier… and that could be the same thing as a scalpel in the hands of a surgeon.
** Yeah you don’t want to get around those guys!! Chuckles
Roger : But anyway…I just accepted the invitation, then I thought, I'm going dutch. I'm going to the feast and I'm going dutch. I brought in 300 drafts so they can go out and liquidate the property that those people have that are listed on those drafts.
** Let me ask you this… when you use the drafts with business organizations that obviously have accounting organizations as part of them or CPA's that come in and audit their books and set up there ledgers right? In other words, if you and I … On the way home after meeting with you in January I flew back setting next to an accountant and I asked her some question. I asked her to tell me what is accrual accounting. She said accrual accounting has to be contrasted with cash accounting. She said that if you run a small business and you don't use any debt that would be cash accounting. That's debits in and credits out or something like that. She said it's real simple, there is nothing complicated about it. You could do it yourself. She said when you're dealing with accrual accounting you're dealing with a corporation or some entity that primarily is dealing in debt. Where they're having to adjust their books and accordingly find out --in other words find out the balances that are due them. But they are going to show that as an asset when it really shows up as a negative. She said it is pretty much of a game that corporations play. And the US Gov. plays the same game. Then I looked up the word Debt in Strong's Concordance and the root word of Debt in the Greek is otholayo and there are like 5 definitions in the Greek and it's in the 3000 section. Anyway, in there we found "by the thought of accruing" so even Strong's Concordance goes into the Greek definitions of accruing. Another friend looked up every word in the New Testament that related to that Greek word which was "due" and "owe" and they all related to the fact of accruing debt. What I'm trying to say to you that everything you've said to us has been right on the button. Okay so let me back track…you would only take a draft like this and use it to organization that would do it as accounting? Like if you came to me and said I want to buy that engine you are selling and you gave me a draft. You wouldn't give me a documentary draft cause I wouldn't know how to use it would I?
Roger : Sure you would.
** Oh you're going to have to teach me how cause I don't know….
Roger : Take it to your bank, that's what they're for.
** Okay you give me your draft and I take it to my bank and deposit it in the night deposit box… is that right?
Roger : No you can deposit it in you're regular checking account. The draft gives the instructions to the collector.
** So they'll be able to move my account one way or the other?
Roger : Oh yeah… when they turn it back…see now they are not operating in bankruptcy… Now you see they have disqualified themselves from the exclusion. --See they are excluded from the bankruptcy if they volunteer. But now they are not volunteering, they are obstructing the exchange, so now they are making a claim, so now they are not bankrupt. Okay so now they are eligible for involuntary bankruptcy, which is on the criminal side.
** Oh my gosh, they are not excluded from involuntary side which is on the criminal side which means they have to carry out the instructions on the draft…
Roger : Right, because once you commence action, the US Marshals come in and liquidate their property.
** Which in this case it would be the bank? Okay so once I get this clear in my mind I can literally take a draft that someone has given me to purchase something or whatever and deposit it…
Roger : The draft… it isn't a matter of depositing, see cause what you do… Well we're going to get an offer from somebody… That's a MONEY ORDER. An offer is telling you this is a bill here that we want you to pay, so that's a money order. Okay you take that money order and you accept it. His money order, I just identified as an offer… and I accepted it. Now it's offer and acceptance--that's a closed agreement now. The draft closes the agreement. It's a closing!
** Yes it does, cause that completes the transaction. The exchange is completed
Roger : That's right. And see the acceptance is the mirror image of the offer.
** Oh so that's why you can take the offer and acceptance turning it to M-3 which is ZERO?
Roger : Right!
** If I'm seeing this correctly and if this is true that there is no money, this whole country would be operating like this there would be no debt. You would have you're offer and acceptance and that would balance each other out to zero and M-1, M-2, and M-3 would be at Zero. Oh my gosh, it's too simple.
Roger : Well you see you can't use this for an immoral purpose because along with this there has to be good conscious that matches up to it with precision.
** So it has to be done with people that have good conscious.
Roger : Of course.
** So this could literally be done by those that are walking in the conscious of the spirit of Christ reining in them? … so when you and I are talking, like right now. If you and I were about to do this kind of exchange … in other words if I was producing one thing and you were producing something else and we make that exchange and that was zeroed out we both walk away with a satisfaction of that acceptance.
Roger : Sure, you could take a draft here and you could have a friend that has an account and he could take your draft and deposit it and then it would be up to the collector to do fine things that we were talking about and then what happens… the reason that those are okay is because there is no liability because you've given your friend your tax exemption to take away the liability. His bank is going to take it and present it to your bank and your bank is going to take it to the Treasury and zero it out. So now there is no evidence of any debt.
** Right, because they're passing through my employer identification number to bring it to zero.
Roger : So you see the draft is the vehicle to accept the offer, close escrow on it and then you name on there--pay to the order of this person. So that person is making an order… He has already made the order on the offer. And you're accepting it, so now you put your business name on there so they know where to pass through or Payable Through.
** And of course that business name is my STRAW MAN'S name and I being the secured party have ownership of that and this thing can be reconciled …
Roger : Right and on there are your clearing numbers.
** So that is why the bank is so obligated as a fiduciary to carry out the orders that we give them. In essence those licensed bankers do work for us…not the other way around.
Roger : Yeah but you can't do that with an open account. Let me explain that… You're sitting in a room, I take it.. Do you have the lights on?
** I am but I don't have the lights on…
Roger : Well then you see your account is open. Now you go over to the light switch and throw the switch. You just closed the circuit.
** Oh that's what caused the lights to come on… I closed the circuit!
Roger : Okay that's why you have to have a closed account. Cause when the other bank throws it into the electronic stream it has to have a closed circuit right into the Treasury and it'll carry it through your account right into the treasury.
** Now is there something special I need to do in order to establish that account?
Roger : You need to go down and make arrangements that the account is closed and get a statement to that affect.
** So literally what I should have is a closed account and an open account.
Roger : Well you could have a savings account in there and if they close that account they'll probably cut you a cashiers check or they'll place the funds into a savings account. In the even they do that, some treasury agent will come along and say "Well that check here is corrupt". You can respond and say "No it isn't that comes from M-3". That's the remedy given to you by the trustee in bankruptcy.
** And that’s what you told those guys yesterday.
Roger : Yeah… chuckles… oh yeah. I had to hold there nose half the day while I was spooning the caster oil down them…
** When you let them know that the M-3, that you know for a fact is zero, they had nothing else they could say.
Roger : Right… I had another guy that confronted a banker with that and they guy here just was sneering at him rubbing his fingers commenting…Nobody knows what M-3 is. (More laughter)
** That's what a banker said to him?
Roger : Oh nobody is suppose to know or be an eye witness to it.
** But you said your son at the university knew about it, right? So there are people that obviously they know…
Roger : Yeah… That was just the way of the banker expressing it. Cause he's assuming that he's operating in bankruptcy. But see we do catch them where they've made claims by their implications and their trying to escape it by their interrogation abilities.
** Oh by trying to catch us off guard?
Roger : No it's not a matter of your being off guard, you have to be able to come to grips with .. you're either in voluntary compliance with bankruptcy or you made a claim… ah… and you see if you've made a claim, the claim is yours if you don't have an obligation to somebody else, because you're exempt. But if you have an outstanding claim to somebody else, you have no exemption.
That's why these people can not claim exemption in there own name if they owe us anything.
So the only thing they can do is they Assume they have our exemption and they are our fiduciary. But you see then they have to volunteer into bankruptcy. The minute we show evidence they are no longer volunteering now they're subject to involuntary bankruptcy.
** Oh and at that point they are shut down…
Roger : Yep and that's when we can move on them.
** Okay can I ask you another question about the open and closed bank accounts? Cause I was totally unclear on this. I had no idea. I had an open account, both checking and savings in my STRAW MAN name and I also have one in a DBA for my business. Now that being the case, now both of them have a savings account attached to them too. They automatically do it for you now whether you ask for it or not.
Roger : Well that's good, cause they can just put it to savings and savings is internal.
** Okay…okay.. Oh… internal to me?
Roger : Yeah
** Well I've been operating the old fashion way, so I would write checks from my business to my personal for my personal usage.
Roger : See I don't know, you're getting into some technicals that I don't know anything about and it'll just distort what we're talking about.
** Can I ask a general question then? Do I ask them to close the account? Or do I wait for them to close it?
Roger : See that is something I don't know yet. There were people that used this and found out that the account was open and they thought it was closed. Some people have had accounts for over 20 years and they later find out the account is still open.
** Well I had some accounts in So. Cal. And when I moved up north I had that account transferred up here. Now do you think that account is closed down in Southern Calif?
Roger : Check to see if you have the same number on them?
** They're new numbers. I cleared out everything to the last penny there.
Roger : Well check them. Do you still have checks to drawn on those accounts? Do you know what you have to do to check it… or what you could do? Is write a check on it and deposit it in one of your accounts up north. You'll get a deposit balance up north and the account in the south it'll show whether the check is going to bounce or not. If it comes back for any reason …to wipe out the deposit on this end… Then you see that account is not closed and those people are subject to involuntary bankruptcy.
** So literally the opposite of what they tell you they are doing is what they're doing. So when they tell you it's closed it is really open? That's the only way that banks like Bank of America and Wells Fargo can keep growing.
Roger : Yeah, they are growing on the debts that have not been retired.
** Oh my gosh… I presumed it was closed which was a bad presumption on my part that that bank is carrying that account or those two accounts as an asset.
Roger : Yep
** Okay now I have a couple other things to relate to you. I got an email a couple days ago that Lutz put out regarding and I didn't tell you before because I didn't think about it. R** L** has never had a social security number.
Roger : I'm sure that's why he is still in there then. They don't have an account to charge him through. See he's not able to sue for peace.
** He's looked upon as an enemy then to the United States right? This is like when Joseph and Mary took Jesus to Bethlehem or went there to be registered, he was born there because of an order by the Imperial King, which was Caesar Augustus and that officially registered Jesus into the public realm so he was not considered an enemy. Is That right?
Roger : Right, they probably know there is a link missing in the chain. It could take a while but he should be having some kind of response if he's doing the acceptance on the paper work.
** I told his wife he needs to be charged. And they need to have an account number and it should be a number given to him in his birth given name not a fiction name.
Roger : Right it has to be in good faith.
** Oh right and I just talked to S** A** I may have told you this on Monday. He made a comment, he said the black slaves were only slaves to one degree. They were slaves but the owners were responsible to make sure they were fed, sheltered, clothed and they were able to keep, what he found out was 40% of what they produced. I said well look at this we're worse off then they were. By making us US Citizens we were made indebted to there bonding system is how they issue the money through the bond, so we're a slave there. Secondly, because now we're a slave that is also in debt we're now into perpetual bondage, we can't get out and it is passed on to our children. That's how this indebtedness doesn't stop with one generation it keeps on going. Thirdly, not only are we slaves that are in debt and slaves forever and pass it on to our children but we are enemies of the state by virtue of the 1917 Trading With The Enemy Act and 1933 Emergency War Powers. So in essence they see people without a social security number as a slave who is indebted forever because of no registration so he is definitely looked upon as the enemy.
Roger : Right. And they are just going to let him set there. He could be there until they plant him.
** Wow
** I have another question about a house that I am going to be leasing and I don't have any qualms because I will be abiding by the terms of the lease but is there anything I should put in there when signing it like some addendum to put me in control of it?
Roger : Oh I don't know, I don't get into that kind of stuff.
** What about all rights reserved with my signature or UCC 1-207.
Roger : No…no, no good.
** Okay good that's what I thought. So generally, whatever you sign in good faith is in the court of conscience. Okay so I've got some changes I'm going to give them and I can tell them this is standard…etc. So this is like private contract?
Roger : Sure. But there is good reason some people have a need to do this.
** Okay so I'll go over my notes about the closed account and the open account and figure out how to eradicate the debt. The only way I can really eradicate debt is to use my documentary draft and let that be routed through my bank and give them the instructions through that draft on how to handle it?
Roger : It's going to have to go in to an electronic transfer to do it.
** So eventually what I'm going to have to do is put my electronic transfer number on there?
So I'm going to have to make sure those accounts are closed. Okay how do I do that.
Roger : Just go in there and close it.
** That is where my faith is being tested. You're throwing new things and I have to really change my thinking. (laughing) I'm saying this tongue in check.
Roger : You see… Hitler was putting all of his mortgages into the furnace. Well that's basically where these are going. It's the crucibal. It's the Treasury. That's where all the instruments go. It's a melt down. It goes into the plasma state. That's the only way the debt can be eliminated.
** So Hitler was in essence getting rid of the debt by putting people into a furnace?
Roger : Yeah
** Why did he think it was so imperative when he was loosing the war to get rid of the mortgage?
Roger : Well his bills were coming due. That’s how he paid his bills. He was the source or origin of the item.
** So literally he was the one that was responsible.
Roger : Oh yes the SS was his personal guard. It was under his signature that every dime that raised him. And those were municipal funds. But you see when you're dealing with a national organization you see the municipals become entwined with the national and their financing methods were such that nobody knew or understood what the final solution was.
** So the same thing could happen in America today with the average American citizen being…
Roger : It's already happening…
** It's happening? ! ?
Roger : Sure it is! Because that's what's happening when we use the electronic funds transfer. But the electronic funds transfer separates the straw man from the real party. And the real party goes into the collection system. See if they haven't redeemed the debt themselves.
** So in essence can I conclude that it is not just sufficient to secure your straw man and your mirror image, you have to secure it and you have to live it?
Roger : Oh yeah--- it isn't going to work any other way.
** So if you're still dependant upon the Federal Reserve Note, which I have been to this point, obviously through the bank transfer of the commercial vehicle being my checking account I am still only part way there…
Roger : Yep. To redeem it you have to get the debt redeemed to get the debt to become M-3 or Zero there is no debt, then you are taking away the danger of the liability.
** So this is what you were telling them yesterday? You showed them the completion of the redemption?…and there is really no way for that side to charge that because that is what has to be done to alleviate the pressure on the earth.
Roger : Yeah. And there is no use talking to them. They can only comprehend it to a degree. See they are not to know. See any time they come with their nasty insinuations I just stuff it down their throat and tell them "Listen, you threatening me?.. This is what's going to happen if you do."
** and you let them know what is going to happen to them with their own process…
Roger : Right, cause if they are not volunteering in bankruptcy, they're telling me I'm here voluntarily. They made a big point out of that.
** There wasn't a warrant for your arrest?
Roger : No no… But you could ask "What about you guys?" You threatening me. You mean to say a threat is they are not volunteering. If you are not volunteering, you are making a claim and you're going in there with the rest of the boys. And they know where they're headed. I told them here also they can't hide behind that badge. I could put them into involuntary bankruptcy and the US Marshals could liquidate all of there personal assets.
** So you are going after them personally?
Roger : Oh yeah. See their straw man is hired. They presume here there is nobody officially at the controls of their ship. It's a ghost ship… it's controlled by the holy ghost. It's the ship of state… it is going in there without any crew. They are all private. So there isn't any official crew.
** Okay so let me see if I can understand Admiralty. Is it because they are a fiction they are a ghost? If they were men they would be dealing private like you and I do?
Roger : Right. Because there isn't anybody there. That is why they don't answer you.
** So everybody that literally is in authority in these organizations is in disguise… they are all hiding?
Roger : Sure… Now we are going to make them come out of the corporate veil or else the marshal is going to liquidate their property.
** So either way… in other words, when I went to business school they tried to convenience us that the corporation was a thing that was set up to protect people. The reality is that it is set up to hide stuff. They can do their dastardly acts behind this thing and what the reality is somebody carries out that act, and somebody has to take responsibility of that sin or that offense because we've uncovered the fact that the Emperor has no clothes. There is no corporate veil to protect them, they now are standing there naked fully exposed with all the crimes and everything else they committed. They now are going to be responsible for…in there own system.
Roger : Yeah, I told them, "If that's what it is going to be here, you have to stay in the red light district."
** Laughter… That's right where you're authorized to do this dastardly stuff. That's the only place you can legally do. If you try to do it outside, like what they were doing with you, they are now violating their own law…! And that's why you can bring the US Marshal down on them personally because that veil of corporate treasury or whatever it is doesn't exist and that now they are personally responsible….and then their court of consciousness burns them the other way, right?
Roger : Yep.
** You have taught me so much I just don't know how to thank you. You have really opened my eyes. Oh I just have one more thing if you could clear this up for me… Lets take somebody I give a documentary draft to for any reason… it is a private party. The guys goes to deposit it in his bank and it's got my routing number on there…that bank passes it through my closed account at my bank and it should then go back as a closed debit in his account, correct?
Roger : They credit the account the minute he puts it in there. That thing never surfaces again. That's the furnace, remember?
** Oh, when it goes to the furnace, even though he's not operating under grace, he's operating under law. In this system his account will show a credit?
Roger : That's right.
** Oh my gosh! I never understood that. I thought for some reason that there was just some crazy ledger accounting deal …
Roger : You're drinking the new wine now.
** So literally it can bring redemption to people that don't even know it is coming to them?
Roger : You got to be careful here. You can't put new wine into old wine skins.
** Okay so if I put new wine into old skins, which is new money into his account, that's going to burst?… like wine skins burst. I don't understand that though, what's going to happen to him?
Roger : He'll just have to grapple with it when it does.
** He may have to call me and say. "What is this? Save me!."
Roger : Well he's taking it in good faith, so he's got his conscience working for him.
** Maybe I should just try these first, like you said, with some business organizations first.
Roger : Yeah. That's what they're for. They're the infidels. You can't injure an infidel.
** So there is no reason for me to do this initially where there is some possibility of an injury because of his ignorance and no knowledge?… okay I'll just do it with an infidel.
Roger : Well see his bank absorbs that.
** Okay, well than that skin wouldn't burst because of the old wine.
Roger : Not as far as his…, but you see the bank his is probably the new wine skin.
** Oh R** Thank you! As I go over my notes, I may have to call you back again, but you have opened my eyes and I thank you so much.
Roger : Okay….
Call Ended