Roger : You just let them know here, that civil litigation won't hold up because all commerce is criminal now.

*  Well they also threatened jail for slander.

Roger : Yeah. but they're trying to bring this civil in and they can't do it...because it's criminal. And ya see, they're coming from the public side...Why?, because they're handling....they haven't redeemed here... the money they're using, so they are public property, period!  It's that simple.

*  Uh huh.

Roger : It's down to that point now, now it's everybody who can prove himself to be private is private here, and those that aren't here are public property, and you see...we now start to draw down on the involuntary bond...ya see, because we're taking them into involuntary bankruptcy and that's not a matter of us actually petitioning, but, what we do in fact....because if we take and we redeem our our commercial activities...

*  Right. Which i've done...

* Roger : Ya see, then...we are now liquidating the property from the other side. See, we have taken them into involuntary bankruptcy then. So you see, as we use the...as we spend and obtain the means here, to uh...buy and spend...credit, if you want to call it that...

*  Uh huh.

Roger : Because we convert the credit into a charge, you see...and that's a burnt offering here, you see...and then that goes to zero. see, the M3.

*  Right.

Roger : You see, we pass through the M3, that's what it is. Because M3 is zero. And by passing through it we emerge out on the other side...with a contract. You see, they've built their enterprise on expansion.

*  Right.

Roger : Nuclear fission. O.k., now you see, we have harnessed nuclear fusion.

*  Yeah, I was reading some of those last notes.

Roger : So now, the energy that we have, now is passing back to the nucleus.

*  Do you think that by doing this, if I were to say, lure them into a position, where they try to take me into court...then I could find out who the people are behind this whole thing, and is there a way, you think, I could basically take it over?

Roger : Well, you wouldn't want to.

* I wouldn't want to, really.

Roger : But no, no...if it was me, I would simply tell them the days of civil...the threat of civil litigation here are...are passed. And that they...cannot have a private position on it here, because it's public property.

*  Even the trademark on their name.... They sent something to me that said something about "exclusive copyright".

Roger : That's O.K., but you see there...

* You're still referring to everything that's statutory...

Roger : It's still public property. See, they haven't redeemed here... the fee on it yet. Or the uh...

*  Do you think even as a private family???

Roger : They're not a private family, they're public.

*  As far as that corporation, you're saying, goes...

Roger : No...

* This family is not public, people...

Roger : Oh yes they are...they just think, by public definition here, that they're private. (Laughing) Because you see, the money they're using has all been "expansionist". That means they're public property here. They've just hired the armies here, to covet their neighbor's property.

*  Even if they are the preferred stockholders of say, a corporation like Exxon or something?

Roger : Sure. Yeah, but you see, that stock is still based upon public revenue.

*  Okay.

Roger : They haven't redeemed it. Okay, and their public property and when we act, we start to liquidate the property they hold.

*  Do you see any advantage in my attempting to bring them and get them into court?

Roger : No.

*  What if that's just what they want to do, because I don't want to remove what i'm doing? I should just accept it all and just...?

Roger : That's right. When you accept it, you're in there, their entire empire collapses.
 

*  That would be interesting with this particular corporation.....

Roger : Oh yeah. They'll get taught a real good lesson. (Laughing)

*  These are going to be the best lawyers that exist. These are going to be the best liars that exist.

Roger : Yeah but you see, if they show themselves to be opposed to your position, then they admit to being the stranger then, don't they?... Or the foreigner.

* Uh huh.

Roger : They're foreign to your interests.

*  Because they're not going by public policy?

Roger : Well, that's just a general statement here right now. You see, they're contrary to your position, right?

*  Right.

Roger : And if they...resist or refuse or otherwise show that they are contrary to your position, then you see...they are not voluntary...or voluntarily in bankruptcy then, are they?

*  If they show that they are contrary to my position?

Roger : Yeah.

*  Then they're not in.... (Roger interrupting "voluntary bankruptcy")...Then they're not in "voluntary bankruptcy".

Roger : Right.

* I don't totally follow that.

Roger : Well they're not voluntarily declaring themselves bankrupt.

*  Oh....And they are. They are bankrupt.

Roger : Of course. HJR-192 says they are.

* Right.

Roger : Okay? So that means now that...they have admitted to being the stranger...The ones here obligated to pay the taxes. And that's 100%. Okay? So now, they're eligible for you to take them into "in-voluntary bankruptcy", being they didn't volunteer. Now you see, they're going to volunteer in, and you're going to be out.

*  Right. I see.

Roger : It's the reverse. And that's the position they're putting themselves into. Okay?

*  Yeah. I understand. I wasn't really thinking about the fact that uh...what you're saying about how...since everything is registered...everything's copyrighted in the corporation, it's still all public. (Roger : Yup)  They're name is public, whatever their claiming is public, everything they're doing is still public.

Roger : Sure.

*  Well that makes sense.

Roger : Yeah, and if you get enough sense, you get dollers.

* That's very insightful. Barbara was saying you're interested in quantum physics. Have you ever heard of a book called "The Dancing Wu-Li Masters"?

Roger : No.

*  When I was sitting in jail for a few days, the book happened to be on my bunk that I ended up with and I sat down and it was something I was actually looking forward to reading, because I had heard of it before. It was somebody who summed up all the different expressions of physics throughout the last 2 or 3 hundred years and the evolution and how quantum physics evolved and stuff. So if you haven't read it or heard of it, I thought you might be interested in it. It's a good book.

Roger : What's the name of it?

*  The Dancing Wu-Li Masters".

Roger : Oh. Okay.

* It's like a layman's guide to quantum physics.

Roger : Oh, okay, it's oriental then?

*  No, actually that was their name for the dance of life, that quantum physics is expressed. So that's just their name for it. Somebody who was studying it from the western point of view happened to meet up with some eastern people who were talking about it, and he adopted that name.

Roger : Okay. I don't know when i'll get to where I can immerse myself in a book here because we've been into the heat of the actual wrestling the uh....finances to the point of submission.

*  Barbara was mentioning that you had some recent dealing with taking some items into the bank....a couple boxes or something like that, right?

Roger : Oh yeah, yeah. See, that's the information here. They need to identify those here who are processing the funds here that come to the Treasury. You see, the Treasury has to determine here whether it's zero or not. Because if the government oriented agencies don't do it then mother nature steps in and you have a national disaster on your hands.

*  With all of their accounting falling apart?

Roger : Yeah. So and...you see, it lodges itself here in the bodies of the actual person that's doing it...you see, and you're immune system is either up or down as a result of it.

*  So everything's been down basically...the economy immune system of the body has been down since everything's been in debt.

Roger : Yeah, and you see, the debt...the bible talks about a terrible..the uh...the demon...talks about it as a demon, but that's free energy that's floating around in waterless places...looking for a place to dwell...you know, and that's negative energy...and uh...you see, we have to harness it and direct it here so that it goes into a receptacle or a terminal that will bring it back to nature. (Me : Interrupting..."Zero")

Roger : Yeah...and of course if it dwells in the body of somebody who doesn't want to let it go here...mother nature will probably bring it through natural violence, because....well, just the idea of Moses and the burning bush. Moses represents the commercial invoice.

* Okay.

Roger : And the burning bush here represents the burnt offerings. Well, I think in the actual text that's given there, I think that's almost a pure example of inflation. You see...burnt offerings. Burnt offerings here... go up. You see, they go weightless here, and that means they go into the atomic structure.

* Right. Well, it was taken from something and turned into nothing so that's going to create a negative. Right?

Roger : Yeah...and you can't call it nothing here because...(Me Interrupting : "You still got the ash that has to go somewhere")...Yeah, well you can take lightwaves, and lightwaves here have particles that can be weighed. You know...you can weigh it. But the weight here has to take into consideration here, the heat.

*  Right, all the relative conditions...

Roger : And you see, the fall of man, when it's talking about the fall of man, that means here that that's something that can be  weighed in value. That's probably a molecule. And like when you walk into a courtroom for instance here, and the judge says, "all rise".

* That's everything going up again.

Roger : Right. Yeah, yeah.

* That's an interesting analogy.

Roger : Yeah, but you see it says here when everybody goes to heaven. Heaven is up.

* And that's after the death.

Roger : Uh huh. It's suspended now. The debt is suspended. It isn't totally erased here, but it's suspended. So you'll have to goto the book of Daniel here and read about suspension.

* And when you're reborn, you're going to be born into debt so it's re-applied right there.

Roger : Well that's re-public. See, because the public government now is re-public see, but you see, it's without taxes. Because prior to the re-public, you see, the democracy is taxed on it's journey back to the principal. And then when it gets to the end of it's journey, it becomes re-public, and now there is no debt. One world order.

* (Blacked Out)

Roger : Yeah, but you see, of course, that's the...the bible tells you here that that temple had to be destroyed here before the holy city...or before the new one could be built.

* Right, well that was the Roman sacking of the temple in 70 A.D., right?

Roger : Yeah, but you see, we have the Roman temple here today because it's called municipal funds, see and those have to be...those are ...those don't necessarily...they have to be destroyed. They have to be spent. You see, municiple, that's all it means here is "spent" here,.. all you're municiple funds are spent here for construction, now you see, you have the priority or the prior condition for closure, you see, in the prior condition there means now ...that that prior condition here has to be fixed up again, and that you can apply the insurance funds here which are the Treasuries.

*  Do you think...are you saying then...do you think that they intended to have the accounts returned to zero before they instituted a world-government.

Roger : Yeah. Oh yeah. You see, that started to come in in 1913, but you see, as a matter of fact, you know...Hitler got onto it in 1933, you see, he utilized that to arm the German armies...and of course, he...well what he did... he could arm the national armies within the laws here that all of the nations here had to obide by...but when he violated the treaties you see, then he had to do it personally.

*  Right. Okay.

Roger : That's when he put the SS under his personal bond and these become the terrorist organizations here that enforced his will on them.

* Wow, that makes alot of sense. ... Did you hear that the SS..well, I had heard that the SS was formed for one reason in particular, was to route out the masons from Hitler's inner circle, because he had figured out at some point that the masons had been financing him or controlling him at one point. Have you ever heard anything like that?

Roger : Well, I don't know whether it was directed against the masons here, I just know here that that was his personal bodyguard.

*  Well at the Nurenberg trials, apparantly, and I don't know if this is true or not but the only Germans that got persecuted were the ones that attacked the masons, not the ones that killed jews, but the ones that killed masons.

Roger : Well...

*  It's something I've come across in my research. I don't know if it's true or not.

Roger : Well I don't either, but then you see the question then boils down to "who is a mason?", the same thing as "who is a jew?"

*  Why do you think that?

Roger : Well. I don't know...all of these theories here that i've ever heard here are just total hogwash. Because a jew here is simply one here that operates his commerce by execution of law, just like an executive officer.

* Yeah, that makes sense.

Roger : Period! It has nothing to do with the ethnic religion or...

* Yeah. I hear what you're saying.

Roger : Because it's purely a commercial identity.

* Yeah. I can understand that.

Roger : And a mason would be the same..uh, because the mason would have to fit into the...(me interrupting : "Contract to build") ...Yeah

*  They're the contractors.

Roger : Yeah.

*  Basically, they have alot to do with it....  Something I was curious about, and I don't know how much thought or consideration you've given it, but a couple of people have been asking me...what are the implications or ramifications of doing something like...accepted for value, and doing a claim on....filing a UCC-1 in another country like Canada, that has a different type of system than the United States as far as...the people and their position in relation to the government or a corporation.

Roger : Well, what is the question then?

*  Well what would be the chance if somebody....O.k, well the question would be "what would be the limits to what we are applying here, as to what you would be able to apply in Canada, like say...

Roger : Canada is a state of the United States.

*  Canada?

Roger : Sure. It's one-world government now, it's called the United States of America. It's a one-world government.

*  So the fact that somebody in Canada has some form of a Social Security number, although they don't call it that, that would ultimately be their account number....

Roger : Of course.

*  Would they also be preferred stockholders of that corporation, considering we have a different contract with the constitution and the crown, then Canada does...i mean, does that have any bearing on it?

Roger : Well of course. You see, because our claims are universal. You see, we got even into the 3rd and 4th generation here...of the bond.

*  The 3rd and 4th generation of the bond?

Roger : Yeah.

*  What do you mean by that?

Roger : Well you see, when we had the tax system in this country...the uh..it allowed for the redemption to occur. It couldn't occur in Europe. Just because the structure of the tax system.

*  So our tax system allowed the redemption to occur.

Roger : Yeah. And then you see, the redemption to occur where our government then...

*  Where someone could step in and redeem? Is that what you're saying?

Roger : Sure...but you see...then our government indebted all the other governments of the world.

*  Through the IMF and the World Bank, you mean?

Roger : Yeah, well, through the foreign aid programs. Foreign aid...and now, you see here, once the redemption starts then the nuclear fusion sets in and so the uh...all of that debt that those countries took here created certain facilities and now those facilities of course, have tarnished...and it has trickled down to the individuals...the revenue that they've released, so now everybody has to have new...stuff, and all of their possessions have to be fixed and now they can release the insurance money.

*  So really, ...until they give us the products, that's really what...that really helps bring the whole round-about to the redemption...they have to actually release...they have to be releasing these debts to us.

Roger : Yeah. You see, otherwise...

*  They are holding it, and the interest on it.

Roger : Yeah. See, when they come and make a claim on you, and say "we're going to bring these charges against you, Title 18 blah, blah, blah, $10,000 fine..." and we say "o.k., that's fine here, I accept here, but where's the charge, in fact?  You see, everybody goes to jail because of the absence of the charge...see, so when we accept, we're accepting here... the fact...man, where's the fact buddy, you don't have any subject matter jurisdiction...unless you can show the object here of your claim. And that has to be in my possession cause I accepted it here and i'm returning it to you...now buddy, you're the tax delinquent.

*  So now, in a situation like mine, where I was in court and the judge just said to me, after I said everything properly, did everything right, had the probation officer on the stand, asked the questions and then turned to the judge, asked him the questions and he says "I don't understand what you are talking about"...all I should have said...

Roger : You shouldn't even have directed it toward the judge. All you need to do in court here is just those three magic questions here, and the witness...

*  So then I should have...whatever they said, whatever they did...o.k., you just go along with them, they take you away, and they book you...(Roger interrupting : Yup.)...they ask you "what's your name?", your Social Security, your address etc...you juts give them all the information they ask for?

Roger : Yup.

*  While you're being booked and sent into the thing...(Roger : Right)... and you just know...that you've done what you can and that they've got to fix their books.

Roger : Now...yeah, but see, what their doing, they're prosecuting your strawman. Your strawman has been in conspiracy with them right from the beginning.

*  What do you think Ron Lutz has done wrong?..and why he hasn't been released?

Roger : Why? Because when Ron went into court, he had it won.

* He had what?

Roger : He had it won.

* Oh, he had it won.

Roger : He had it won, and then when he...after he got done with the three magic questions, the three lawyers ran to the bench...and Ron gets scared and he says here "I do not authorize any of you to plea bargain for me".

*  He said that without any provocation?

Roger : That's right, and the judge...I can tell...the guy here that told me about what happened in there, that was an eyewitness to it.  I had the feeling that the judge..or the magistrate was a little startled and just kind of, as a reaction, asked his name, you know, or made some remark about his name and he was so willing to give it, then I could see that the magistrate had no resolve, and then formulated a question, a hard question, because it came from the magistrate twice, and he gave his name..., i'm telling you, he gave it to him, himself...

*  Ron gave the judge his name?

Roger : Oh yes, twice!

*  That's so hard to believe...after listening to him and the way he teaches, and how confident he felt and what he was saying for so long, you know...it's just amazing.

Roger : Yeah well, that's what happened. So the thing is...

*  But how long was he held before...when he was arrested before he ever even saw the judge?

Roger : Oh, I don't know, you know...it was exceeding 72 hours here.. but it may not have been here as a matter of procedure because there may have been...I suspect here that there were...there were some preliminary things going on here...

* Like a set-up of some sort?

Roger : Yeah.

* Yeah, that's suspicious. It really is suspicious because...uh, they may have known...it seems like they knew that he was coming out there.
(Blacked Out)......, from California here, when that $500,000.00 Bond was put on him.

*  What was that again? I didn't understand that.

Roger : Well, that there was some consideration here, that there was a California....controversy of some kind.

*  Oh, that California was involved.

Roger : Well, you see, if that's the case, cause i'm pretty sure ...(Blacked Out)........that i'm sure that he probably was the one here that put the bond hold on him. You see, because those guys as lawyers...they take somebody's name, and they put it up as collateral and then they...to commit it, they actually go and buy United States securities of some kind here so they can draw they interest on them.

*  Using that person's name?

Roger : Yeah. And you see, the $500,000.00 dollar bond would assume here that they are holding in common, the million dollar bond....Take a look at Title 26, section 163. That'll give that relationship in there. That has to do with the interest here in the bond. And you see, it's $500,000.00 and $500,000.00 to equal the one million.

*  And you really...?...  I know you're very sharp and I don't doubt you, but it's so...and you think..(Blacked Out).... would really go that far...in that direction

Roger : Oh, I know he would.

* Head on?

Roger : Well, head on, but he does it in secret here...he hasn't had anybody understand the process enough here to finger him...but you see, I've heard this coming from people out in Cleveland, so I was wondering here what ...(Blacked Out).....name was doing out in Cleveland...well, apparantly Ron has been in the habit of visiting with him...

* With ...(Blanked Out)????.........

Roger : Yeah.

*  Yeah, you know I heard Ron mentioning...(Roger interrupting : O.K. well then, I'm sure that...)...He had tried to talk ...(Blanked Out)......into understanding this....(Roger interrupting again, this time loud and confident : Oh..ho.well, then i'll bet you that's exactly here what's holding him then. Yeah.)...  He had made a point, one time, on one of his tapes, I had heard him saying that he had had a couple meeting with ...(Blanked Out)........and really had tried to tell him all about "redemption" and how it all worked...

Roger : Oh, yeah. Well, ....(Blanked Out)..... here, even called me once and tried to drag me in to a conversation here...but...he's a real sneak here...he's been around for years and years and those attorneys do not change their colors.

*  Yeah, well i'm sure he makes alot of money off of all the people who are...(Roger : Sure) trying to become sovereign and want to be free, and turn around get in a little trouble...

Roger : Oh yeah, yeah, he's the one that does it to them.

*  You mean...you're going so far as, you think actually he's the one who does it to them?... I don't doubt it.

Roger : (Cut off from cross-talk)...whatever it was see, when he came up in the heat of the thing, and I just tucked it away in the back of my mind...that .....(Blanked Out)..........was on the scene, and I don't even remember who made the reference, cause there was alot of people who called that who I don't know who they were. They had just gotten a phone number from somebody and told them to pass the word on to me here...what was going on...and I just tucked it away...thinking here that "oh i'm going to hear more about this later...but I didn't. That was the only reference here that I got.

*  I feel awful bad for Ron...he's probably suffering, being thousands of miles from home.

Roger : Yeah, well he uh...

* That was not a bright move though...especially if you've never done this before...and you're going to go directly to the person...that was something else I've been meaning to ask you...I 've been learning about the drafts, cause I've been to Barbara's last two seminars, and I was curious about one thing....If you do everything properly, say, and you're doing something through the mail...you probably shouldn't expect to have a problem?...or you still might?

Roger : You're the only one who can determine whether you are doing it properly. If you have to ask me if it's proper...

* I know, I understand.

Roger : Yeah...then you're in trouble...

* Yeah. I'm learning, I understand...What i'm saying is...like when Ron did it, I think he actually did do a couple of things...he made a couple of mistakes, from what I understand, as far as...using 5 numbers up in the top right hand corner...I don't know if that's true or not.

Roger : Yeah, but you see here...

* Did it make any difference???

Roger : No! You see, here's the thing. I turned over...over 300 of these drafts here to the Secret Service...for them to...

* To investigate?

Roger : You bet!...And you see...I'm the one that designed that draft and as we were discussing it....pretty soon here, they didn't think it was a good idea for them to refer to those here as "sight drafts"...

* Uhuh.

Roger : Why?...Because...I designed that thing and I went to the printer and I had it printed, and I had to even proof read it two or three times...before they went to print. Because what that was here...is a draft for me...to conduct my own private  business.

* Right.

Roger : Okay now. When you're dealing here with international money...the way corporations, or business organizations get commercial accounts established in banks...(* Right)...They submit a plan...a business plan...to the bank...and then the business plan has to show...when, where and how...they spend their money and then they just write checks against it, because it's a registered account. You see, corporations **** gets to be alot of money and then they have to jump through the zoning requirements and things like that before it's approved. But that's the way all these contractors here and these major cities do it...they get a plan to...fence off a chunk of land in the city and they go in there and develop it here and of course it goes on the tax rolls and stuff here...for the repayment, but you see, on the intial startup in construction, all they do is deposit their plan, and they write their checks against it.

* Wow! That's amazing.

Roger : Well, see, that's what this draft is. (* Right) ...This draft here is a business plan and you have to treat it like that. You treat it like something else and you get hung.

* Yeah. 'Cause there is no money.

Roger : Right. Well everything is operating in bankruptcy. So if they don't volunteer bankrupt, you see, then they have this property in their possession, right? (*Uhuh)..So now they are eligible for us to take them into involuntary bankruptcy. And that's what we are doing here with the closing of the draft. Drawing out the business plan. It's just the reverse here to what a building contractor is doing in the city there.

*  What would be a good source to learn about, without wasting alot of time...to get to what you are talking about...(Roger starts laughing...) ...really well as far as...well I know you were talking about a book on intermediary accounting.

Roger : Intermediate accounting. Yeah.

* As far as what you were talking about right there with the contractors and the building and the cities.

Roger : Well just study it here in the closing aspects. You don't have to study the whole book.

* And that stuff's found in an intermediate accounting book.

Roger : Sure. That's how you close it. It's dealing with property. It's dealing with the account, it's examining the account. Forensic accounting here, you know...it's the spreadsheet.

* I had a word for you. Everything starts with an allegation. Somebody alleges that you commited a crime. Is that the first ledger entry?

Roger : Well probably.

* The alleging.

Roger : Yeah. They have to describe the object..of uh...who commited the crime. See, they have to identify who did it.

* What i'm asking is "do you think that really what their talking about when they say 'an allegation' , the root word being ledger, being the original ledger.?

Roger : Probably. Cause you see, the judge here, all he is is the auditor of the account.

* Is there a way you can get...force an audit on the court...if the court doesn't want to admit...(Roger: What court?)...that they've got...say the court has your acceptance and they won't admit it...(What court?...)...Any court, o.k. say trial...

Roger : You have to identify who's court it is.

* Well it's supposed to be my court.

Roger : Well o.k.

*  It's the court they swiped from out from under my feet.

Roger : The court. What can they do out here, cause the court...is the court of conscience.

*  Well, they try to foist their conscience on yours...then...(Roger : Well)...they try to say "that's my court", you know?...

Roger : Well, they're trying to reverse it...that's where you need to get into intermediate accounting, into the closing and you'll see how it works. ...(Cut off...what we're doing)

* So just a book on intermediate accounting?

Roger : A textbook.

* Anything else?

Roger : No, not really. That's the place to start, you know...you see, too many people here, ask too many questions in one sitting, and this is the fallacy of public education...(*  Right)...because then you see, you get so many abstracts in your mind...it's your subconscious mind here, that really, really takes the education...but they clutter it with so much damn stuff here that it confuses it.

* Oh yeah.

Roger : So you see...you need to get selective here about what you do and when you do it.

* O.k., well, I really appreciate your time Roger and I think you're doing a great job. I think everything you're involved with...I have learned so much from you, that I couldn't thank you enough. You've opend up so many doors of understanding for me, and brought so much enlightenment to my life, and alot of other people as well.

Roger : Well, that's good, 'cause their gonna need it here to be able to uh..get a handle on this, this debt has run over everybody and it's ruining everything here in the communities and everyone can see it.

* Yeah, it's a disease. It's horrible.

Roger : Everything is deteriorating rapidly.

*  When Bush sits up there and he talks about how he's gonna bring the uh...bring the deficit down...he's gonna apply money to the principal, I think he was saying...you know he's talking about...you know what i'm saying?...he's talking about paying down the uh..not just the interest...

Roger : Oh, they're talking about public write downs here, but they can't reduce the deficit here, administratively. It has to come through an individual.

* Right. What I was wondering was...you know, I heard on one of Sam's tapes that Clinton had made a thank you to a farmer in Missouri in one of his speeches...i don't know if that was really ever a true story or not...but do they, are they acknowledging and understanding that we are bringing down the debt? Is that really what they are talking about?

Roger : Oh, I don't know. I have no idea. And I really don't care you know, I find out here...this collective thinking here, is not productive.

* Yeah I know...the problem is, alot of people are really trying to learn this and there is nothing that they can get their hands on...

Roger : Yeah. You know why? Because they are focusing it here...poking their nose into the public business, and we're not in the public business..I'm not....You see, you stick your nose in the public business, you got your nose in everybody elses but your own. (* Yeah.) You see, because if you've got you're nose in public business, you don't have it in your own. That's evidence right there. Yeah, see..(chuckling)...just remember that.

*  O.k., are you enjoying your computer?

Roger : I haven't hardly got started it here, I've got a ledger in a file and that's as far as I've got, because I can't get my head loose long enough here...The thing is, I lose touch here with everything that's going on around me, and I've got to get this and settle it first...so it's srating to reside a little here..just because of some of the things I'm doing here now, I can see we are starting to get settlement...I've been up to my eyebrows in paper and I think I got the paper down to my armpits right now.

*  So you're making some headway. Some advances.

Roger : Yeah. Because otherwise it was coming in faster than I can shovel it out. And I was wondering here, when I was going to reach the apex of that, or the summit.

*  Not specifically, but generally...what kinds of paperwork do you mean, because as far as i'm familiar, there isn't really too much paperwork involved?

Roger : Oh, with me, yeah, because here...I accepted everything that came in my mail...

*  Oh, so you're just talking about multiple accounts?

Roger : Yeah.

* Ok. Then it becomes paperwork.

Roger : Because even the Treasury was wondering here..."Well, don't you have the sheriff's and these collectors calling at your door?", and I says "Well, as long as I keep up my paperwork here...they haven't got that far yet. You see, because I'm making the effort to honor their commercial offers.

* Right. And those are all private contracts...it's not really the treasury's business.

Roger : Right. Well,...yeah it is, because the Treasury is private.

* Well it comes...back...oh, o.k..Because it ends up coming back to them.

Roger : To the Treasury. And it's my treasury. That's where the preferred stockholder here has his assets.

* Right. It must be nice to finally be getting some class A respect around town...

Roger : Of course.

* You deserve it, Roger. If anyone does, you do.

Roger : Well, that's good. We got the doors open here...

* That's right. That's right, and they are not going to close.

Roger : No, no. Well they close here, but you see the closing...it's a revolving door and it opens on the other side...and that's what happens when we take them into involuntary bankruptcy.

* They want to suspend it.

Roger : We actually don't...don't uh...have to take them in under a petition...we just take them in as a matter of fact of what we're doing.

* Right. The fact that we're there and they are trying to get something from us, and the fatc is...they've got our acceptance.

Roger : Yeah! You see, because...what Lutz should have done, he should have "accepted", which he did, and when he was in court, he should have just asked the three magic questions and shut up...and then you see here, would have happened..it was already in gear, they were ready to hand it over.

*  And he..just because he said that at that point "I dont authorize you to ..."

Roger (interrupting) : That's right!

*...represent me...

Roger : Yeah but that's...he testified. The Miranda warning says "anything you say, can and will be used against you".

*  Well, in what way was that used against him?

Roger : He recognized his accuser....

* Oh, okay.

Roger : ..as the stockholder. (Laughing, but seriously :  Ho ho ho ho ho , Yeah)

*  Yeah, you know..it took alot of years and a really unique person to put this all together. It took someone focusing on this problem...

Roger : Well, they gave me plenty of time to do it.

* Something I've been meaning to ask you, briefly before I go here... Have you seen the judges panel tapes, where they talk about you, and how you are going to be getting out of prison soon, and causing all this trouble?

Roger : Oh yeah.

* I was just curious. I had to know. (Both of us laughing about it briefly)

Roger : I don't even know where they are here..I don't really focus on that.
Some small chat wrapping things up and saying goodbye.