.
.
.
.
.
.
.
August 17th, 2002 Part 2
Conversation going on with Roger and two men K* and R**
K* We’ve got some rolling stock here…
R: …. (some lost from tape) you offered back here cause it’s pre-paid. You can have my
share of the stock. Yeah I want the holding stock, you can have the shadow. Chuckling … you can have the liabilities
R** K* wrote one on my board here. I’ve got a white board in my living room and it says, Your contract in itself is the only thing of any value.
K* Yeah I was just quoting you. … I like this one up here that I wrote that says, I Prey for Closure.
R: Yeah!
K* P r e y (chuckles)
R** How did your paper that went to the Minnesota Sec of State go? I understand you sent about 14 pages down and they would eventually end up with Colin Powell. Did you ever have to go that far with it?
R: Wellll… that one, no! I laid out what needs to be done …… well some of that is still up in the air.
R** Well there is no pie in the sky…. Nothing happens overnight. It seems they can make these happen overnight, which nobody is ever prepared for and try to figure your way out of their damn snares….
R: Yeah. Well you see when you file and you need to file either with your own non-standard forms. Or what you ought to do is get a form and draw it out and put in pretty much the same as the one they use except it’s very obvious that this is hand drawn… Use that to file. It’s very obvious now so they can’t work on the assumption with that because it is a non-standard form.
K* Because if you go in with their form you’re going in with their agreement?
R: Right. So now what you want to do is if you file that way it requires the debtors signature. But you see since you are the debtors authorized signature you can sign for yourself and for your debtor and you can also sign for the business organization, which is the other (guard(?).
K* So we can sign it for anybody?
R: Yeah… well basically on the one’s here in Minnesota there are three signature lines,… One for the debtor, the other for the business organization and one for the secured party. You can sign on all three of them. A separate signature for each one. Okay but that’s why I’m saying here that you need to list your straw man as the debtor then all of the controversy is put into the property section. In there is when you instruct the Sec of State to call upon the powers available to him or her to compel the delinquent parties to do their duties. That means the business organization might mean some attorneys or someone else who is a creditor of the straw man, that means it is the creditor that is delinquent. That is the one, if you spell that out to the Secretary of State, who has the obligation to call upon the powers available to the Secretary of State to compel those delinquent powers to discharge their duties.
K* Okay!
R** Regardless of who that might be…?
R: Right! Okay now there is a place down there for assignment. That’s where you put the Secretary of State’s name and that is an assignment to the Secretary of State to compel those people to do their duties. Now you go ahead and file it and that file becomes an order to the Sec of State because that Sec of State is the registered agent of that person at that time. Registered by virtue of that title. Now they are probably not going to do anything about it. Now you see the National Form comes on because now the Sec of State due to that filing now becomes a debtor to that obligation. So now you list the Sec of State as the debtor on the national form. Okay now on the National Form it doesn’t require the signature of the debtor. On the now you list Colin Powell or Norman Mineta or somebody there who has the obligation to order the remedy. Now Norm Mineta is the Secretary of Transportation. He’s got authority to order that action too. So you see that’s how you have to use it. Now I know that most of these states say they only use the national forms now. ‘They’ only use the national form there because they don’t want the other side of the jurisdiction up in there…. But you see now you’ve got the state and the United States together and what they wanted you to do was assume the things that the state said you couldn’t use a fact to offset their presumptions.
K* So they are just going to say it like a decoy to try to prevent us from doing it or using it…
R: Oh yeah that’s all it is. They just want to act in their ex-officio capacity and they don’t take any responsibility for anything. What that does is it allows all their confederates to loot and plunder everything. So they’re all thieves---Every last one of them.
K* Sometimes I wonder if we… even if we go through all these channels and do everything all perfect and they are such liars whose to say that right when it’s time for closure that they’re going to do some other cute shit and carry it on again … I know they are going to.
R: Well here’s the thing -- You see they are not going to do it willingly, they are going to do it for fear of going to jail or loosing their own property. They aren’t ever going to do anything out of virtue. Cause there is no virtue in them. They may think there is but there isn’t. If you guys say the movie, B* sent me a copy of it…the one with Robert Redford…
R** Oh yeah, Brubaker.
R: That shows you see even the lady in there holding herself to be self-righteous and sanctimonious. He finally let her know her real sympathies were with the extortionists.
R** Well I thought it was kind of neat when he challenged that contractor about not sending more slave labor over to him. The guy goes, “Oh No! It’s not like that. We’ve been doing this for a hundred years.” But see what’d they do?… they replaced him with someone that was going to go back to the same ole show.
R: Oh yeah!
R** Yeah that was based on a true story.
R: Yep! I’ve seen it in operation. Yep I know. They’ve even arrested some of the guys that use to work at the prison, but you see whenever they would haul stuff out to the dump, these guys would go back out there that night or the next day would make a call on the city dump and pick up the stuff that was dropped off.
K* And re-sell it or…
R: Yeah they busted a couple of them for that.
K* It would be nice to see what’s going to happen when we pin one of these attorneys like you’re saying and see how the rest are going to respond then. If they’re going to back off and let us use our checks or if they’re going to think twice about it or do you think they’ll even know?
R: Probably not. But you’ve got a chance to press them to the wire right now with what you’re doing.
K* Good! Thanks for equipping me to be able to do that.
R** Well I guess you’ve got what you were looking for then huh K*?
K* Yeah plus I just wanted to say hello and if there is anything we can ever do for you R just let us know….
R: Yeah I appreciate you people too. Just keep on keeping on! (Chuckles)
R** I’ve given B* some video’s that I guess she’s sent your way. One was titled Snitches and it was shown on Front Line expose’. This is where they had this kid for some marijuana and they made him turn in 15 of his friends. See what nobody understands is they are trying to generate 15 new accounts… Chuckling.
R: Yeah! Oh yeah!
R** Then there was another one called An Ordinary Crime where they railroaded a black kid into prison for 38 years for something he didn’t do and it was proven. That one was really quiet interesting because it showed the entire corruption of the whole damn system. Even the police dept. were at odds with that one.
K* R you were saying a little earlier where this gentlemen went to court and requested the appearance bond in court verbally to the judge… is that true?
R: Where? To the one in Texas?
K* Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
R: No I think what he was looking for was the assessment?
K* Oh! Okay. I thought that somebody had asked or requested the appearance bond to the judge and I wasn’t clear if that was over the phone or in person.
R: I would suspect he would have covered that but it wasn’t the prime focus and it wasn’t necessary in this case.
K* Okay! Okay! He just wanted the assessment cause that would show who the felon is?
R: Sure, and that would actually be the bond too.
R** Yeah I was just going to say the assessment and the bond seem to be synonymous.
R: Yeah!
K* The lien is the release of the lien as you would say.
R: Yeah you see and the judge when he makes his conclusions of law… the findings of facts and conclusions of law, that’s going to condemn the attorney and that’s why he didn’t want to do that. Because he would have had to sum up the case right there. And if this guy is pleading guilty for willful failure to file that means that they would have the facts in the case that they didn’t have an assessment. That they had created an assessment with a criminal charge.
K* So what do they do? They kept it in suspense?
R: Well he ordered them out of the courtroom and told them to settle….
K* Oh yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
R** Did they ever come to a conclusion?
R: Naw! I was gone before they got any farther. So what this guy needed to do was get a disciplinary complaint on that attorney immediately. They were a little slow on that. They were thinking they could find some easier way…. But that’s what they needed to do to make damn sure that this guy didn’t get loose on them again. I don’t know! I haven’t been back in touch with them to get the final outcome. The people that might know are hard to get hold of. I’ll probably know some day I’ll get a run down on it but I don’t know this day.
K* Well it’s nice to know a bit about it but it’s pretty much there business anyway. It just makes knowing about others more interesting and fun when your doing things too…
R: Yeah! Yeah!
R** Did J* come up with anything stimulating while you were there?
R: Well you see what he was doing enabled me to get in and get a grip on this business of these bankruptcies. That’s actually where I could see it developed. These guys when they file bankruptcy… the fellow that I went down there with that J* has known before he’s gone through these bankruptcies with a lot of farmers. That’s mainly where his interests have been. But you see the farmers traditionally filed bankruptcy to keep them from taking the property. Then while they were doing that he would apply the administrative procedures act…. in bankruptcy. Well they have a forum now … a court, a bankruptcy court to where they can compel these attorneys to do certain things. So that’s where he made all of that stick. And then you see he made the recommendations to this guy that the first thing you do is file a motion to dismiss. Now that seems to be pretty separated when you’re looking at all your property going down the road and your hide going to jail. But that had a lot more weight in that circumstance then you might realize because he said that he’s willing to plead guilty to the willful failure to file the 7203 so that takes it away from the judge so he can’t even assume to set up a trial.
K* Cause he has no part if there is no dispute, right?
R: Right! There is nothing in dispute if he’s going to plead guilty. So now you’ve got a motion to dismiss in, the judge has got to come up with the finding of facts and conclusions of law and that’s what they’re telling him here is you can’t actually take the plea until that is in. You have to act on this motion to dismiss. The finding of facts and conclusions of law are less then and is going to enable him if he doesn’t want to dismiss or is going to deny it, he still has to come with his finding of facts and conclusions of law. Otherwise that becomes a claim he’s made and he’s committed a felony just as well as what you’re accusing the original attorney of.
K* Boy they don’t want to get near any of that!
R: So you see that has some pretty hefty and far reaching implications. And you see the attorneys cover it up because they just keep standing their ground until they come down and make a squeeze play on you just before they see the judge on the next appearance.
K* Okay… steer clear of that.
R: Okay so you see, that’s when they make the squeeze play on you so you want to be prepared for that. See the thing is if he wants to make a settlement then make sure you ask… “Where’s your check?” He ain’t got no check… he don’t have an assessment in fact!
R** If they were ever to produce that check, what do you do sign it over to them?
R: I’d go spend it! (laughter) Yeah I would. Case closed now! There is no controversy. It’s got his name on it.
K* Charge created in my name so it must belong to me!
R: That’s right! Nobody else’s business.
K* Right! Yeah the IRS got pretty quiet. They sent me a letter asking how much money did I make and I sent them an answer back saying it was none of their business. They sent me a thing back saying, said they show I made $XX,000. I didn’t have a self addressed envelope in it so the more I thought about it I didn’t do anything about it. I just ignored it.
R: Well write to them and ask them where is the Certificate of Origin is for the assessment. Yeah… start pressing them.
K* Okay!
R: Yeah you just tell them either drop the charge or it’s cause for me to start discovery of your assets that you control individually, in your official title and your ex-officio title.
K* The interesting thing is, they have never sent me a money order. They want me to tell them how much money I made but they don’t want to say much they got…
R: Well you ask them for the assessment….
K* Yeah! Ya!
R: And tell them, they either dismiss the charge or you request the finding of fact and the conclusion of law as… aw… awe… well what did they say you owe the money for?
K* They didn’t say I owe the money. They asked how much money did you make in the year 2000 from Vivitar (some company name) and I said: None of your business and sent it back. Then they sent me something back and said: This is how much money you made.
R: Then I would write back and ask them for the Certificate of Origin of the assessment.
K* Yeah I like that. That’s right to it.
R: Yeah and the other thing too is you tell them I did not find your check enclosed. You put that with it because you see he can’t prove it in fact that he has an assessment unless the check is there because he’s a foreigner. You see and in the local community there isn’t any money. So he better give you the check.
R** Well I’m afraid that one of these day’s they’re going to do like you. They’re going to have a box there and they’re going to stick your check in it.
R: Oh okay good! Then I can go and party a little. Soon as the check comes make sure you cash it as soon as you can and go spend it. Don’t leave it where they can get their grubby fingers on it.
K* I did order that engine I wanted but I didn’t know the exact amount of shipping and they sent me a money order back so I sent them a check back. I’m hoping it’s going to come but…
R: Did you write EFT only on the face of the check?
K* Yes I did! And wrote to the dept of treasury pre-paid exchange. Account number, Certificate of Origin, and the order number. It was a bit much but I really want them to ship this $6,000 worth of stuff. Well I guess I don’t need to disclose any more stuff…
R: No it’s not necessary. I really think that some of the reasons these checks don’t work are because a lot of these corporations had not been incorporated. You see because what the attorneys have done is they have faked it. So lots of these are just fake shells. They are handling property but only if they can reorder them from some legitimate vender. I’m sure that is why a lot of the checks don’t work is because the corporation or the alleged corporate. See what the check does is it takes care of a corporate liability. But they don’t even recognize having any liabilities because they are all hoodlums and thieves.
K* Wow!
R: Yeah and you can start to belittle them too when they call you on the phone you can ask them, “Who is the attorney that did your corporate registrations?” (laughter)
K* Yeah! Someone called me a couple of weeks ago and I told them they had a claim against me and I told them they were a foreigner cause he identified himself as an attorney and he thought I was getting racist on him or something and he got all excited. I told him, “you give up your citizenship when you got your bar card, Pal. I know there is no money ---you know there is no money, so what do you want?”
R** What did he say?
K* Well he was pretty much tripping all over himself at that point. Then he says, “Well we have a claim.” So I told him, “K* J* is bankrupt so please provide me the product of your offer without cost to me immediately.” Then he just went silent so I hung up on him.
R: Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
K* Actually I want phone calls. Then maybe we can get closure. If we keep avoiding these phone calls then they just get escalated. I might as well just set it off.
R: Yep! You see they get the fish in here then we just say… “Where is your assessment? How much is it?” Then he’s going to tell you, “Well it was on that paper I sent you.” “Yeah but sir, I didn’t find your check here so you still can’t prove a claim here in fact.” It’s still bs!
K* Yeah…. You’re in sin city pal!
R: You got to put the e on the word sin. Make it sine…. ( Laughter).. You got to get them electrons in there.
K* Right! Without my agreement you’ve got nothing!
R** Well I was amazed along time ago when the Supreme Court said, Nobody is in our prisons except those who consent to be there. I never could figure out how that could be. I never understood how that worked.
R: Well I guess a lot of these attorneys are applying for membership.
K* Membership?
R: Yeah! They want to become a member of that prison community. (laughter)
K* I like in the Wizard of OZ when that guy was suppose to go home in the balloon, and they dropped the bags off and Dorothy said, “Come back, come back!” and he said, “I can’t I don’t know how this works.” Well I guess we could of always gone home. We just had to see it for ourselves to believe it.
R: Yep! Yep!
K* Gosh R we’ve taken up so much of your afternoon I guess we should be letting you go to work on some of your own stuff… we appreciate
R: Well I’ll be interested in seeing what happens with what you’re doing. Sounds like it’s getting interesting.
K* Yeah I’ll go over that letter again and correct what we talked about….
R: Yeah see this business J* is involved with in Texas is somewhat the same because this group of doctors have got to take over that hospital. See they were dispossessed of their ownership in it from before. But see now being these attorneys that moved in there and assuming these assessments they all have to do with tax assessments you see. So it’s relatively a lot of the same stuff that you’re moving on in that apt bldg.
K* Well these attorneys best be getting these prisons set up nice for all the things they enjoy… laughing.
R: Yep! I think we need some more! (more laughter)
R** Nothing wrong with us building one for them is there?
K* We’ll even let them fund it…
R** Yeah we’ll just check with the army corp. of engineers see if they won’t give us some backing.
K* We’ve got all these crooked doctors, lawyers and foreign agent here screwing up our country. Lets lock them up huh?
R: Humhum… They’re all volunteering for it.
K* They’re contracting! They’ve got to be baffled because we’re really kind of dead and alive at the same time. Do you think they get it that we’re kind of dead and alive at the same time?
R: Oh I don’t think so.
R** Seems like everybody is coming to America for a JOB. (JOB is pronounced like the biblical)
R: Yeah well. They don’t like American methods in the rest of the world.
K* Cause they know what the state is doing to us is that why?
R: Well it’s doing it to them too.
R** Well I think governments all over must know what this game is all about…
R: Oh sure they do.
K* Yeah but we lend money to all of them so we’re all one right?
R: Yeah… we’re all debtors. But you see because United States has (lost in the tape changing)
Well you offered back here and it’s prepaid. You can have my share of the stock. I want the rolling stock you can have the shadow. – You can have the liabilities.
R** R it’s been fun! Other good byes etc.
* * *
Thanks to all of you who are being honorable and contributing to make these transcripts possible. I get questions from people telling me they are studying the transcripts and they are not on my list. I know the study material is useful and it gets passed all over the internet. There are people who have them and shouldn’t. People cannot get this much information for the $10 a month fee even if they called and talked to R directly not to mention making their notes to study! Most of you are very honorable and I know you appreciate all the work that goes into this. Please stop passing the material around! If you are a group and you are sharing increase the donation. Thanks! For those who want to contribute please send your contributions to Barbara Busch, P.O. Box 881007, Los Angeles, CA 90009. It is $10.00 for email and $15.00 a month for mailing. DON’T FORGET TO INCLUDE YOUR EMAIL even if you think I have it. I don’t always connect email with name.