** Glad I finally caught you… We were having R withdrawals  (chuckling)

R: Well that’s good… when you withdraw you have something to spend… (chuckling)

** Well we have a lot of activity going on…

R: Yeah, well here too.  The intensity what I was doing was I was getting into the study of the purchase of government guarantee tax lien certificates and tax deeds.

** Wonderful

R: I’m finding out some awful interesting stuff.  Because this started … well that’s when I realized what I was on to I had to set a lot of other things aside and finish up all the material that I had.   This gets back to even what I understood when I was on a township board at one time… an election board.   We use to count the votes and take them to the auditor and all that stuff.  So I know somewhat of what was going on.  And of course now I’m seeing all this magnified.  Here’s the interesting part of it… for you… now you’ll pick up.  I started to coin the phrase this here to all the people we’re dealing with in the county.  This is holy ground!

** Oh… now I don’t know what that means… Does that mean that the land is for the real people?  Holy ground means for private real people…

R: Yeah.  See Moses had to stand on the holy ground of the burning bush without his shoes.  He had to stand in his bare feet.  Why?  Because it is holy ground.

** Right.  Had to remove the commercialization of the shoes.  The industry or stocks out of the way from between them.  Okay… got it..

R: So now you see he’s before the burning bush and you see the burning bush is the inflation.  Those are all the burnt offerings going up in flames.  That’s what’s going on in Afghanistan with all those bombs.  They’ve got to do it and have an excuse to drop a lot of those into the atmosphere.  It doesn’t make any difference where it’s at because it’s all international government.

** We were wondering about that because of you telling us about the H bomb and the A bomb.  How one was explosion and one was implosion.

R: Yeah and you see when I get my Social Security check it, my number that goes on it… they’ve got an A after my social security number on it.

** Oh, what do you think that means?

R: The A bomb…and then when I deal with them… Well let me see what they do here for postage…   They don’t … oh they just use a postage permit.  But you see, what they use, like when I deal with the bank when I’m dealing with that they use an N meter.  Now the letter N as near as I can tell represents credit.  But it’s got a 7 digit number on that one.  Now a lot of mail that we deal with has H meters on them.  An H meter has a 6 digit number….

** Oh I’ll have to start watching.

R: See the country also has H bonds somewhere.  Those H bonds and there is a certain issue that I know is Asian or Chinese for whatever… its bonds that are issued for our commercial adventure in China.  And you got to remember too something else about the twin towers when they went down.  One was North and one was South.  The south tower I think was the first one hit.  Well years ago you use to remember, I do anyway, about people absconded and went south with the money…

** Yes I remember that…

R: Well that’s how come you’ve got North Korea and South Korea, North Viet-Nam and South Viet-Nam.  So you see the United States is down there trying to catch the debit.  Why?… because they were the creditors to start with, with all this stuff.   All the countries of the world went into this foreign aide.  That foreign aide and when they talk about it being aide, read the Magna Carta.  In the Marg (phonetic) Magna Carta they talk about the receiving the aides from the City of London.  They are all municipal funds.

** The City of London is actually the Central Banks.  They make it sound like a city like it is part of London but it is really independent…

R: Yeah.  So you see the city has the townships that support them.  The townships are where the assessments are made.  See I’m finding out that it isn’t so easy to get information out of these County Treasurers.  You have to ask your question pretty precise before they give you anything.
You don’t want to just run down there until you know the precise answers are that you need so that you’re asking the question that is not going to antagonize them.  Sometimes you ask your question too broad and they don’t have any business of answering it.  Because it goes beyond what they have control over.  That’s when you run into problems of them not wanting to talk to you.

** You have been busy!  So who is it you talked to?  The City Council or the Tax Assessor?

R: Well I’ve talked to more than just one.  I give $1,500 for some information, some tapes and workbook to do it as a business, but I also went and did some inquires of my own at the county.  I went over to see the County Treasurer.  She didn’t give information that we thought that she should of.  She referred us to the County Auditor and we really did not get answers to what we wanted.  So then I went around to find out where the delinquent taxes were published in the county and they just gave me all these bum steers.  There were public notices of the county that were published in those papers, but they weren’t the delinquent taxes.  They have a county paper that does that.   I finally had to run three different papers down until I found the ones that did it.   Then what I did, I subscribed to the paper to make darn sure I get the next notice of the delinquent tax list.  If we go in and buy that stuff, like I say that is the holy ground, that seems to be the free zone.  In other words, it’s all tax exempt.  You put your money in there and take it out plus interest, it’s exempt.

** Wow, that’s wonderful…  Sounds right

R: Oohkay!! See that’s what these banks have wanted to assume is that they are exempt and they are not.  So they go in a buy up the taxes then the next thing we go in and we find out our taxes have been paid bla bla bla so what happens, people tend to let them go into delinquents.  Because they think they’re paid…. Yeah paid by a bank but the bank doesn’t recognize you at all.  They put on who they want.  That’s how they take over this property.

** How interesting.  Like the homeowners exemption they think they do us a favor…  That’s not the same thing is it?

R:  Well it probably is.  They’re giving you an exemption that belongs to you to start with.

** Right I know they use to give the homeowner exemptions if you were in the property and file before the tax bill…

R: They are administratively doing what you’d normally do if you protest a tax assessment to get the account adjusted.  Okay?  See here in Minnesota… well I just had breakfast this morning with one of the county commissioners from the county I live in.  He said that the assessors work all through this year and they bring about the tax assessments and they publish it sometime in Sept and then people can come in and protest.  Well you see, what they do then is they assess these and then once you’re through the protest process then it goes on and they publish it or the taxes are then placed with the County Treasurers office so that you can walk in on the 2nd of January and pay up your taxes.

** Right… okay

R: The delinquent tax list… well the last one I have here is March 26th.  So you see they take a year so they are already delinquent when they publish them…

** Well see in California it goes No Darn Fooling Around.  Or November 1st you get the bill, Due by December 10, February 1st you get the bill and due by April 10th.

R: Good!  Because we’re going to be able to sell this stuff real easy.  The way you do that is all these people… Well let me start out and give you a description about a judge signing an order.  Lets say you go to court… an lets say you bring on a summons and complaint.  See that’s a summary process.  It’s a summary court marshal is what it is.  And you bring a summons and complaint on somebody for whatever the claim is and since it’s a summary matter you can then move for summary judgment at any time in any preceding.

** Almost right after you file?

R: What I do is just file the summons and complaint and just attach the judgment right to the back side and I move for judgment right there.  When I serve the summons and complaint on them.

** Okay.

R: So you’ve got a summons and complaint with a judgment attached to it.  Now you see what they’ll do in most of your courts is it will go before a judge and the judge will move into the case or your opponent to make a contrary move but your judge will go in an ultimately refuse or deny the motion for judgment.  Okay?  So once he denies it he now has admitted that you moved the order for that.  Because what you’re doing is you’re moving an order for judgment.  And when he refuses it he’s locked in the evidence, he can be called for direct exam.  He can be asked the question, “Did B* move this judgment into your court?”  He’d say, “Yes”.  No further questions.  We don’t care whether he denied it or not.

** So when he denies it that’s basically he’s admitting that it’s there?

R: Right and that’s all we care about.  Now because it’s a dishonor, now you see once you have accepted it what you do is you return it to him for value, the mover for value, in exchange.

** Now when you move it for value is that for the assessment that was already done by the assessor?

R: It doesn’t make any difference.  Whatever that controversy was… Don’t abstract this thing right now.  See that judgment can be from whatever you are talking about.  See when you’ve now bound the evidence on him.  You accept it.  That’s binding a contract between two private parties.  He thinks he can operate in there as a judge but he still had to be there in person.  So when we accept that for value we accept and return for value in EXCHANGE.  Now we request that he provide us with the proceeds, products, accounts and fixtures and deliver them immediately in exchange to the place and time that we tell them.

** Okay!

R: Once you have done that and now they refuse to turn over the property in question, it has nothing to do with money now and they fail to provide you with the remedy you just asked them for now you see they no longer have any equitable claim in any of the property under their name.  So now anything they have in their name you can sell it.

** So we’re turning it around and taking the equity … so we’re taking the equity…

R: Right…  For Sale By Owner.  There doesn’t have to be anything or mysterious about this.  See as soon as you have established that position, they can’t prove anything contrary because they are paying for stuff with debt instruments.  So there is no way they can move into this jurisdiction.  Now what I’m finding out by sorting through all these tax lien certificates and how they work.  If you take any piece of property from these people, well what you really want to do is take some of these a------ attorneys, take their office building and sell it, or put it up for sale.  You can always let the owner of the building know-you either pay this law firms liability to me or I’m going to sell your building because I can’t get my equity out of them any other way.   Lot of times they’ll just buy it from you.  They’ll just pay up the cost to keep the building.   But what you do, you just get a property description of the building and then get yourself a P.O. Box to protect you so they can’t find out who’s doing it.  You put a classified ad For Sale By Owner.

** See we’re trying to take that apt bldg that dishonored K*… So anyway we got a property profile on it and found out that in 1996 they took out a 7 mil dollar loan and what it looks like is the bank is the one that is borrowing the money…

R: Umhum

** and then it’s got the typical statement on there that they put on all the loan documents about you agree that you will allow them to sell the property if you miss payments.  Which means they hire the trustees to do that.

R: See you cause the trustees to turn the equity over to you…  To deliver it to you.

** Right, but see here is what they’ve done.  They borrow under a persons name and sign it over to a corporation…

R: Doesn’t make any difference.  They can’t bind it because they are using debt and the debt still exists and those are all transfers and they cannot prove a fact with a transfer.   So you see we don’t care about any of that stuff.

** Oh wonderful!!!

R: See what happens, when you put it up for For Sale By OWNER.  Then give a property description, then state Owner will provide a Bill of  Sale and will consider contract for deed.

** Contract for Deed…?  Okay so basically what we’re selling is the equity?

R: YES, because you’re the owner of the equity!  See so it’s For Sale By Owner.  So under the rules of equity.  It doesn’t work under the statutory rules.   See a lot of these signs you see sitting out in front yards by people - For Sale By Owner, those are all statutory requirements is the only way they’re going to be able to move that.  But you see we’re moving into equity because we’re saying, “We own all of the equity that’s under the name of the person that’s dishonored me.”

** Okay… so we basically own that person now since we’ve done the Providing Information to the Secretary of State and put our employer ID # on the form?….

R: What do you mean?  Just forget those for right now.  We aren’t bringing any of that in here.  We’re just going now with the classified Ad.   All this is aside.  These people, remember I told you, you write them and tell them to give you remedy…  Deliver the property to me at the time and place here designated!  … now you see you don’t really have to do anything else here, you just put his property up for sale.  Tell them that that’s cause for failure to meet the time frame for my selling the equity to obtain my remedy…okay?

** Wow this is really streamlined.  Just go into court with the summons and complaint?…

R: You don’t even have to do that.  I’m just telling you that so you see that when a judge signs something…  Well let’s just say that you got right to an attorney or somebody who has some claim of an official position on the property.  You tell them, I want this remedy.  See even if you do it with an individual, that individual is still part of the corporation because he is dealing in debt.

** Oh whenever they make a demand on you for federal reserve notes!

R: Yeah.  Because you see, unless you agree that he has equity, he doesn’t have any.  See he has to settle with you, NOT YOU WITH HIM.    Now, because he is dealing in debt… that’s why!
So you see now when you sell this property.  Let’s say that you get a buyer, you get a buyer on that thing and you get a down payment like 10% or maybe less…   ** Okay!

R: Now on the Bill of Sale you write out the contract for deed.  The terms like so much money at this time and this time and so much interest, and final payment on this date at which time this instrument acknowledges delivery of the deed.

** Okay now what kind of funds do you take from the person.

R: Anything that you can take and spend.

** Wouldn’t they be debt instruments because they are federal reserve notes or is this redeeming them?

R: They’re redeemed once he gives them to you.  See this is the Holy Ground.

** Got it…Getting those dots connected.

R: See this is the burning bush… all going up.  Can’t weigh it in gravity any longer.  So they don’t have any claim.  Cause it’s all in heaven now.

** Whoa!  We could actually use this to go buy houses?

R: Sure… but what you want to do is go after them for all the property that they’ve got their names on.   The ones that have helped to loot and plunder you.  Okay so we just sell that stuff first and when you issue…  Well when you get someone that gives you a check, you take that check, bank it and cash it.  So that you record the transaction and you give them a Bill of Sale.  When he takes that Bill of Sale into the judge, and lets say there is a bank in there saying that we’re taking a property, we’re foreclosing and that it belongs to us.  The judge is just going to tell them, “Hey this Bill of Sale supercedes your note Mr. Banker, and you mortgage is now detached from the property.”

** That’s right, we’re dealing in fact and they’re dealing on presumption cause they can’t prove first sale of ownership.

R: See they are dealing under statute and when we go into GRACE, statute passes away.  There is no law!  See that’s what Public Policy is.  We get grace at that point!   That’s what the equity is.  You can not come to equity without clean hands.  See these people are still holding on to their corrupt debt claims.  As long as they do that, they don’t have any equity so then we’re the owner.

** Oh this is making so much sense.  So on some of these different things that we’ve already got going on, we don’t even have to concern ourselves with that we can just go right into this?

R: Yeah.  Be a little bit careful on how much of this you let out!   How far and wide you let it get out.

** Right, until we experiment with it a little.

R: Yeah and then I wouldn’t relate the details because it empowers some of these hoodlums information that we don’t want to give them just now.

**  We’ve got a guy on the east coast I think I told you about that he got a car and it was delivered to his driveway.  That was several months back and he has been successful in obtaining other items using the drafts I believe.  Anyway on Sunday the police came out and arrested him, took his computer, redemption study material etc.  Now he doesn’t want to tell them anything but apparently he has a lady friend who wants to hire an attorney for him.  He is past retirement and has some physical challenges but because they have taken study materials and they are going after the “Ring Leader or head of this or something to that affect, I was given the heads up that I may get a visit.  Now your name is not on any of the material I send out by email I use R but he may have tapes and so they would get your name, but my name is really out there big time so they’ll probably come visit me.

R: Oh… okay  (Chuckles)  Well you just have to learn the fundamentals so they can’t get the jurisdiction to bring things in.  See with some of these people they deliberately delay these things as long as they can.  Because they put the debt instruments into the hands of their buddies for unjust enrichment and they want to keep those as long as they can and if they start to mature they assign them to somebody else with a later maturity date.

** They just pass it around so we don’t know who is after us.

R: Yeah!  That’s the ole shell game!  There’s nothing there.

** What they did with R* they tried to negotiate with him and tell him… Okay here is what we’re going to do.  If you will agree to take this misdemeanor, we’ll drop the felony charge.  R* just set there and gave them the blank stare.  He thought I’ve been here to long, I’m going to play it out.  Anyway the public defender says, “Well you’re still not going to talk to me….” So he goes back and tells the judge.  When R* gets in front of the judge and the judge tries to make the same deal, R* asks him the questions of his name etc.  The judge admits he has no claim right there in open court and tells R* that he just wants to be his friend.  The judge still ended up dropping the charges from the felony to a misdemeanor.  So it does look like they are trying to back out just like what you said they would do.  They keep delaying… stalling.  Playing all their little intimidating games.

R: Hmhumm… See now, he needs to request to be released that his body and all his personal property to all be delivered to the discharge desk of that organization that’s holding him.

** Oh he has done that.

R: Okay, now that he’s done that and they have refused to do it…!  Now he sells the equity, so start getting the property of judges, public defender, and prosecutor plus the attorney that originally started the action.  Now you can get all this information by calling down to the County Treasurers office.  What you do is you ask for the parcel numbers that this person is paying taxes on.

** Oh… okay

R: See there is ways of getting it.

** Right.  You can go to the County Tax Assessors office and put the names in the computer… you may even be able to do it on line now… It’s been awhile since I’ve done any of this…

R: Well you should try and do that.  Then as soon as you find the property, that they’ve got their names on and they are paying the taxes.  See that’s what you’re going to put FOR SALE BY OWNER.  You just put the ad in the local paper.  Now you pay for the ad with your private check and when that ad runs and you get someone who … when you tell them that owner will consider contract for deed, that means that you are going to bank roll it.

** Okay right!

R: So now these people will put the down payment that you determine.  If you determine that the down payment is to be a dollar and they can’t afford nothing else.  See because as soon as you execute, and I would take a check, so that you cash it in the bank, so that the bank records have to show that transaction.

** Right!  That’s what we want to do with K*.

R: Okay!  See now what you do… see you’re thinking about us doing business with each other.  But see I’m just saying here that you’re going to put this kind of an ad and it’s going to be picked up higher on people that are in the real estate business.

** Right.  There is a whole bunch of ads that say “I Buy Trust Deeds”.  Would that be like contract for deed.

R: Okay now here is the thing.  Once you get a Bill of Sale that is a contract for deed.  Well you are going to put a down payment on it if you buy one.  Then you just run another ad in the paper contract for deed for sale.

** Okay so you put the down payment on it from the open account?

R: Oh no--   no--   no--   no!  That closed account is solid.  I went and I got me some more checks from my bank.  I didn’t send them a copy of my check from my bank but I had a deposit slip from the bank and that’s enough information on there.  It’s printed on there just like on the checks.  So I sent that along and gave them a check on another bank to pay the costs.  I ordered and I got my boxes but what they did, the bank that I had my checking account was a branch bank and the main bank was in another town 50 - 60 miles away, so when I got my checks they did not put the branch bank on it they only put the main bank.

** Interesting.  Some people are saying they are getting a statement even though the account is closed they are getting billed for checks written on closed accounts from the bank where the account is closed.

R: They should write them a check for that amount.

** We just thought you should accept it and send it back to them…

R: Oh no!  Just give them a check for it.  That allows the bank to take their charges and go over and exempt it.

** See we’re wondering.  When they dishonor, like they are going to be dishonoring mine when K* deposits it.  We’ve been having a discussion on whose bank is suppose to be paying it, his or mine?

R: It isn’t going to be paid!  There isn’t any money!

** Right, okay.  So who is dishonoring?  His bank or mine?

R: They are not dishonoring.  What it does… on his bank they make 2 entries.  They deposit it and then they put a reversing entry in to zero it out.  The reason is, is because it is a private matter now.   They can’t disclose any of that transaction to the public.

** Ohhh…  okay.  He deposits it in his open account and that will show the closing… Got it!
Now I’ll own the property cause I have the Bill of Sale from his dishonor…

R: See when it goes through the bank that way and whoever gets his bank statement back it shows two transactions in there but it shows a zero balance.  But the transaction is recorded and now that records it as being exempt.  There is no debt that has to be taxed out of circulation.   That’s what taxes are, they take the debt out of circulation and redeem it.

** Right… okay.  Now how do I take possession or control of the building?

R: Well you’ve been in the real estate business long enough to know that once you have a Bill of Sale and you just start doing your work down at the recorders office or Treasurers office and one thing or another.   See there’s going to be taxes but you’re not going to be taxed.  It will be the …a..

** So I would take this down to the County Recorder and record it?

R: Yeah.

** Okay cause we we’re sure if that would be taking it public.  Okay good.

R: See the reason that we make sure that the transaction goes through the check book that way.  Now whoever has got the Bill of Sale and Contract For Deed, that is now the owner of the property and you have a marketable title.   It is not marketable until that transaction is complete.

** Okay,  Right.

R: Why?… Because it is exempt from any other claims.  That’s when all the liens, tax liens, mortgages, bank loans, notes, everything now falls away.  They can’t hold it.

** Gotcha!  All right cause they can’t prove any sales.

R: No!  And now you see …

** That’s the supercedeous bond right?

R: Yeah that is supercedeous by you using your check and it’s very evident on your bank statement.  Because there is the transaction and there is the check that shows it went in and then of course they make another compensating maybe somewhere else even distant they make a reversing entry that shows zero.  So you see there is the evidence that the debt was redeemed on that particular property and the check that did it is setting in the holding company in a private place out of public view.

** Umhumm…. Wonderful!  Now if we’re going to be doing this on these different people we could go over and get these attorneys names and do everything through the real estate.

R: Yeah.

** You know for taking equity.

R: You could even sell their cars.  But if you sell the car and it has a license number on it and you sell it cheap enough he’ll buy it sight un seen.  You tell them where it’s parked…. Chuckles

** The problem is you can’t find information on the cars.  The Dept. of  Motor Vehicles isn’t very cooperative unless you have a friend like an officer or something.

R:  Well there are people who can do this on computers…  I see advertisements coming through that people do this as a business.

** Weelll I…. know these kind of services and I think they equate with the credit repair  business.  I think it is rated as one of the biggest scams along with credit repair and email chain letter business or multilevel business schemes.

R: Oh it is.  Well you see the credit is a scam in itself.  The word itself is a “come with me and say well we want to give you this credit and that credit…”   I had a call the other day and this guy said, “we’re going to give you credit… .  I said, “Well why are you doing this?”  and he said, “Well you applied for it, it was about a year ago.”  I asked, “What took you so long.  Why don’t I have it now ?”    He starts giving me all these excuses.  I said, “Well I don’t really approve of you business tactics for one thing.  And I don’t want your credit…. I don’t want a VISA card.”  He was still kind of inquisitive and asked, “Well how do you get along?”  I said, “I just use my check book.  And you know something, my checkbook number, I can memorize it and can use it anywhere in the world.”  I told him, “You guys are on your way out.”

** I’ll tell you, this gal called me from Tele-check or some check service and threatened me with notifying all these merchants that won’t take checks from me.  One of the things she admitted is that they warrant the checks for this company.  I did tell her to go ahead and pay it she had my authorization to do so.   I did tell her that “This is a private agreement between me and this company how did she manage to wedge herself into the agreement.”   She commented about me telling her to pay the bill when I had the merchandise.  I told her I don’t have an agreement with her.

R: Yeah but when you told her, you go ahead and pay it, you do have an agreement with her now.  Just hang up the phone.

** Now she’s been calling me leaving me messages on my machine.  She tells me that if I’m trying to avoid her she is going to continue to call me or have my attorney call her…   (chuckles)  I just did a letter accepting their letter and phone call verbal offers.

R: Well I wonder if she has any property.  Get her on the phone just tell her, “The only thing I want from you is the description of your personal property, and if not I’ll have to go after the business property that you’re using to make these phone calls and I’m going to sell.  You keep up your bad conduct then you don’t have any equity lady.  I’m going to sell the equity.”  You can keep control of the conversation that way and don’t let them get anything in.   Just tell them, “This is what I’m going to do and if your not going to give me any of the property, then that’s a dishonor lady and you have no equity.  Have a nice day.”

** Oh another thing going on out there and you are probably getting it too.  A machine calls and asks for your name and if that is you press a number or a star or whatever…  I usually just hang up on those but to think they have the presumption to think you’re going to respond like a Pavlov dog to them so they can abuse and steal from you.

R: I have stuff like this come in all the time.  But if they keep it up I’ll just go to the phone company and tell them to get rid of these people or I’ll get rid of this phone and go to a cell phone.

** Yeah it is interesting of their little tactics to try to collect.  It has to be cutting down on man power.

R: It’s just harassment.  See that one lady that called me and I just told her to go ahead and pay them.  She picked up $160 right there because she said the figure she gave me included the additional charges for returned checks.   They were charging me for the returned checks and I said, “Okay.”  When she asked, “Are you authorizing me to pay them?”  I said, “Yes I am!” and she just said, “Okay.” And she hung up.

**   Now that’s all in this letter that I just accepted from Tele-check.  What we do is we’ve been writing right across the paper, turning it sideways so it is the width that we write across, and just write everything by hand so they have to really try hard to see what we are writing.

R: Not only that, (chuckles) but it’s commingled into what they’ve said.  So they can’t separate it.

** Oh another thing I wanted to ask.  You mentioned something to ** about a form 285 from the US Marshals… Would that work for R* too?   Should he do something like that?

R: Well you use a 285 form if you’re filing in a U S court.  Because you see, your U S Marshal service is contracted with the courts to have to provide Marshal service for the court.  See when you and I go in to a summary process, we’re taking people in to a summary court marshal.  In other words, the Marshal Service has to provide you with a marshal… court marshal, not a U S Marshal.

** Well what happens if you are county?… that’s the Sheriff.

R: Well you’re also appointing him as the court marshal when you’re dealing with municipal funds.

** Okay, municipal funds.

R: Court Marshal… not a U S Marshal.  See it’s marshal law!

** Marshal Law… right.  Now people that are in jail that still haven’t been release even though they have accepted everything and they should start taking equity, but should they use that form, request that form?

R: I don’t think so.  See what they do is they keep making an offer after offer after offer, until you quite dealing with it.  Okay then they assume that’s their contract to keep you in custody.  So you see what you do.  Just like we’ve got a guy here and he’s been in awhile so they’re telling him you should apply for the work and we can put you to work so you can busy yourself.  And that’s understandable.  People get so they want to do something, but they are also using that as a contract.
What I’m doing with him.  I hope he picks up on.  I want him to write -- okay, I accept and I’ll enter into this agreement with you, than fill that out, but then what you do immediately.  That is an acceptance in fact.  Then what you do is request that you be released immediately and delivered in exchange to the discharge desk.  Every time there is an offer made and you accept it then you put in your request for DELIVERY.  It can be release and delivery.  You can use the two words.  But you have to use delivery in there because delivery is the word that takes them into involuntary bankruptcy.

** Okay good.  What about Certificate of Origin, Nontransferable, should that always be on there too?

R: Well it doesn’t necessarily have to.  I mean once we get formalized.

** I just put it so that people start recognizing …

R: I’d do it but don’t insert it in here.  This needs to be grasped in its very simplicity and when we say it’s got to have the stamp here and there.  They have reservations in themselves whether it has a sinister meaning or not, so just give it to them in the simplest form under those conditions.

** Oh good.  Okay.  Did you get the package I sent you for form 9131?

R: Yep!

** We still can’t find that darn form, but the information we found references it.

R: Well somebody who has a case, who has an indictment somewhere.  Have them write in and ask for that form that’s been filed in the case or not filed in the case.

** That’s sort of what we thought.  It looks like it has to be filed from or provided from some agency, like IRS or Sheriff or something.

R: Umhumm

** It’s good to have you back.  I hope you had some down time to give your mind a rest.
                   Some other chit chat

R: See if we… Well there are a lot of people that have a lot of money in areas standing around that these people can’t use.  If they start to spend this money on themselves it is going to trigger the taxes and that triggers the equity and then they start grabbing all your property.  They have all this money but they can’t do anything with it.

** Right… they become prisoners of their money.

R: Sure and that’s the same with these people that have these 401’s.  See it was based on nothing to start with so they had to take it out of circulation because these people aren’t going to have anything when it comes time anyway.  They are depending on the public to give them something from nothing.

** Interesting.  They think they are wealthy but they are slaves and prisoners to all their stuff.

R: And so this friend has been standoffish on all this… Totally frightened when they came and grabbed me and still frightened of it.

** Understandable…

R: When she saw me dealing with these tax certificates she began to see that’s a place for her money.   She is now scared to death the stockbrokers are going to clean her out.  She doesn’t know where else to put it.

** And that’s exactly what the snakes would do…

R: Umhumm,  and so if she’s got this setting someplace and we can find a place to dump enough of it and buy up these tax certificates where she really doesn’t want to get into the real estate business so she wants to buy stuff that we know is going to be picked up before the tax sale or property sale occurs.

** You mean the assessment?

R: People let their taxes ride and then at the last minute they come in and pick them up.  Hopefully she can get enough of her money in there.  Like the state of Iowa pays 24% on it.

** Well I have a friend here that I was helping her on her investment property.  She had her payments current but didn’t pay the property tax.  In California you can ride 5 years before they threaten to take the property for back property tax.  Anyway the bank paid the tax then notified her that she now owes the bank, I think it was about year and a half of taxes that they wanted her to pay or they were going to foreclose.   They did foreclose because she didn’t have the money for the taxes impound account required by the bank.  The rent from the house did make the payment to the bank loan.   She wanted to sell the property but the market was declining so she couldn’t get her money from the down payment out so the bank got it all.  The impound account was more then if she would of paid the taxes.  You can’t pay the smaller amount so now they demand more…. Who comes up with this insane logic???  They set you up with these impossibilities.

R: That’s un-conscienceable.

** Right… un- conscience able.

R: That shows you that the tax deed is the certificate of ownership.  It’s exempt.  There isn’t any bank or any anything that can assail against it.  They have to come in here and make an equity claim on you… and they have to have clean hands when they do it.  That’s why the attorney stays in secret all the time, because he can’t let anybody see all the corruption on his hands.

** Oh my gosh.  Now to go in there and check these properties out.  I’m not sure the assessor would let you pay it without your name being on there.

R: Sure!  You can go an pay anybodies taxes.  You just tell them you are paying that persons taxes.  They’ll take it.

** Then you pay it with your private account?

R: Sure.  Just give them a check and they’ll take it… zip.  It isn’t until after it hits the bank that they’ll know about the account.  Then it’s too late… It is done.   See if they try to call… I’ve had some people here and they try to fake it and say well we presented it for payment but it was closed and I can see that they’ve never charged the check.  They never made presentment see.

** Right, see cause they try to avoid the check charges.

R: Yeah well what they did was they tried to go around and they tried to call the bank and see if there is money in the account.  When they come back to me I just tell them, “Lady you can’t get information out of that bank.  You’re telling me a fib.”  I tell them, “That’s a private account.  That information is protected by the Privacy Act.  The only way your going to find out anything is you’re going to have to do an electronic funds transfer to obtain information.  When the check bounces you can send the States Attorney down here after me.”

** Oh we found out another thing.   This lady baby sets and she got a bad.  So she took the check to the police department.  The check was for something like $120 or something like that.  Anyway the police officer told here the police was not in the business to go out and collect on funds.  She needs to find a private collection service.

R: Yeah but he said we don’t collect funds… she needed to tell him I want you to do the investigation on it.  Tell me what happened to the funds.

** Well they told her she needs to find a private collection service.

R: That isn’t so though.  We had a deal like that up here.  An attorney had given a guy a check for $53,000 bucks.  And the check couldn’t be cashed and at the time this guy didn’t understand what it was.  Anyway we took the check over to the States Attorney and he says, “No that’s not my jurisdiction.  You’ll have to take it over to then he named another state.”  It was the office of where this attorney was at.  He said you’ll have to that over to the West Fargo Police Dept.  So we did!  When we went over there we told them about that this guy wrote a check on this account and we wanted to know where the money is.   If he doesn’t come up with the money we wanted someone to go arrest him.  They didn’t respond to that but they said they’d investigate it and find out where the account was.  Maybe he wrote a check and didn’t have a bank account.  But it was written on a down town metropolitan bank.  So they went and did an investigation and called us about 2 weeks later and said this is what we found.  We went into the bank and here was the account and on the day that the check was at the bank and went into the account and the next day the account shows zero.  So he must of absconded with the money.

** So this guy wrote the check and then closed the account?

R: Well this attorney apparently had an account like what we’re using.  So when the check hit the account it was zero.   One was a fiscal and the other was a calendar account.  Anyway what happened they called us back over and told us, “This is what we have found.”  We just told them then, “Well that doesn’t help us so we want you to take this check back down to the attorney and tell him we either want another check or we want him to make this good however he has to make this good or take him into custody.”  So they said, “Okay, well we’ll go see him.”  So I think about 2 or 3 days go by they called us back down there and we drove down to the police station again.  They had another check for 53,000 bucks.  It was written on a different account and it was made out to him and FHA.  He then took it over to the FHA office and they cleared it and he got his money.

** Wow.  So this guy was a private guy and the attorney was the one who tried to snitzel the private guy?

R: Yep.  The attorney was going to take it for himself.   He was taking the exemption and using it.   Because he was laundering and stealing money here that was under commodity credit loan.  He had a farm out there too.  So I know what he was doing.

** So in other words he was trying to commingle with his private … and he was not operating with good faith and clean hands.

R: Nobody has held any of them to accounts.  That’s what they’re doing on my property.  See with my property I had my farm operating loans with Federal Land Bank.  About two years before any of the trouble started that I could see or even had any inkling that there was any trouble going on in the background.  I normally, at the end of the year, I’d finish up my work and get my grain sold or get loans on it or something.  Then I’d pick a day that I’d go down and see my bank and clean up my affairs for the year.   I had to be buying inventory and either have to buy up supplies or pay it up in taxes so that’s what I would do.  Usually I’d this between Thanksgiving and Christmas.  So I go up to the Courthouse to pay up my taxes before I go down to see Federal Land Bank.  Then I’d make my payments and sign my notes and whatever I had to do to get ready for next year.  So I went to pay my taxes and the County Treasurer said the taxes are paid.  I said, “Oh… Who paid them?”  They said, “Federal Land Bank”.  I said, “Okay I’m going down to see them in a day or two anyway so I’ll take it up with them.”  So I get down there and sure enough they got the account and I acknowledge the receipt and everything and we adjust how I’m going to pay this whether it’s going to go in the loan or if I’m going to pay them or however it was done so I get my income tax done.  So it’s a done deal.  Well the next year the same thing happens.  Now two years running I don’t see a problem with it.  It’s my bank doing my business paying my bills and my taxes and bla bla bla.

** Umhumm…

R: But pretty soon when I was going to buy some equipment I was taking it off the hands of another farmer who had it under lease.  The lease interest payment were so high I was just going to get the money from Federal Land Bank and just pay off the lease because the Land Bank money was only about 8% than where the lease money was like 18%.  They agreed to do it.

** This was before you went to prison that you knew all this?

R: Long time before than.  This was back in the 70’s.

** Back when we thought the government was honest… (Chuckles)

R: Yeah.  But what was going on, I went to Federal Land Bank that fall to get the money to pay off the leases after I had already signed on to them.  We ran the machines for a while until we got some of the bugs ironed out.  So the guy that was selling them to me could clean up some of his affairs so he could pass me good title.   We just operated the machines and left the money in the company bank account.  We’d divide that up after we made settlement after purchasing the machines.  Well Federal Land Bank backed out of the deal.  So they left me hanging and that was enough for me to sue them for damages.

** Right.

R: Oh yeah.  Lot of stuff happened after that.  But anyway I find out that I wasn’t able to use my property.  They tried to refrain from telling me for the longest time and that started back probably two years prior to that.   What they had done…  They had used the land as collateral on another big farmer in the area that was going around leasing up all his neighbors property and out bidding everybody on their rent.  So you see it caused a lot of people to give up their equipment and one thing or another.  He rented it for a year or two and then it caught up to him and then he didn’t have anybody to rent their land anymore.  It really, really cleaned a lot of people.

** I think that’s when things started happening.  I remember that guy in Wisconsin, went by the name Pastor Tom.  He wrote all that information on the Federal Land Bank and he was trying to help a lot of the farmers… Do you know who I’m talking about?

R: Yeah out of Tigerton.  Anyway, with this happening you see, I see how they took the property.  I had a friend that I went to school with.  He had a farm operation almost identical in size as to mine and he became or was chairman of the Federal Land Bank Board.  When all of this came out, he owed a million dollars more than I was on my property.

** So he was the head of it and owed more… ?

R: Yep.  Well he had access to get loans up as high as he could get.  See, but I ran mine conservative.  I didn’t owe but maybe $200,000 on it and he owed a million and a quarter.

** That’s what they did with Donald Trump.  I went to a seminar a long time ago and they told us either pay your real estate property off or keep it totally maxed.    When it is loaned to the maximum the banks will usually work with you to keep you paying.

R: See I owed very little and they wanted to grab it cause they used it as collateral.  Cause I caught up to the guy that they loaned 8 million dollars and using my land for collateral.  I caught them at it and forced the note to be called on him and they sold out his trucks.  He had 120 Kenworth tractors on the road and about 200 trailers and they sold them off three weeks after I caught up with them.

** Wow

R: And 60 days after that happened they sold his land and his tractors and guess what?..

** What?

R: It came out in the papers about two weeks after the largest sale at one time in North Dakota that the land was purchased by someone who drew a check on a Canadian Bank.  And the Canadian Bank account was closed.

** Whoa!!!  Oh my gosh.

R: They printed that right out in the paper.

** They’ve known this all this time and just act stupid to us.

R: Oh yes!  And these are attorneys that have been doing stuff like this.   So I know the attorney that was orchestrating this stuff and he was the one that had stuffed this business behind the scenes on me.  But see I forced it out of their hands at that time.  Then when I came down to Fargo and Morehead and moved down here then I went to the Sheriff Dept because we had family that was working there.  They knew something was going on but they didn’t understand it.  They knew we were being mistreated and they got afraid of what was going on in there so they took early retirement to get out of there.

** By the way, when you say family, which reminds me of Norwegian, did you get that video from R*?

R: Yeah I got it but haven’t watched it yet.

** Oh let me tell you what’s going on in there.  They talk about the Protocols, from the History Channel.  Have you ever heard of the Protocols of Zion that was written back in 1897?  Well this is a documentary.

R: You mean the Elders of Zion?

** Right the Learned Elders of Zion and now it is 100 years later and they mention it is the Norwegians who have this information.  We were wondering if you knew anything about this?

R: No

** Okay it’s an interesting tape and it also has the Inquisition and also the Apostles story.

R: Well that’s an interesting story and all but it really has no bearing at where we are now.

** Okay.  We thought it had some history about the mechanics and history of how we got where we are now.

R: Yeah! Yeah! but you see with all that going on in the background, there is no rhyme or reason to it and it’s why people have difficulty trying to tell a rational story as to what happened and what is happening to there businesses and so forth.  So when bystanders stand off and read this stuff they say well they must of done something wrong because the government doesn’t work like that.

** What I notice what people do is they shut down.  They get totally overwhelmed and set there with a blank stare.

R: Yeah, but then they still like to set there coy and pretend to the world they know something.  So then it must be something sinister that you did.

** Right… they always take up for the professional.

R: And they don’t want to be labeled to be dumber than they are actually feeling at that time.  For poking their nose into other peoples business and making comments about something they don’t know a damn thing about.  Well anyway you see, what I see happening is that these banks and all these artificial entities come in and pay the taxes on this stuff and that’s the way they separate you from the property.  The minute you start into any kind of an argument that might be when they send the SWAT team down.  Because for the taking-the taking in secret.  You see in their taking it and they might even be representing you when they are taking it but they’re down there to get the mirror image and they have to grab you to be able to have the mirror image along with you.  But they go through all this to justify the existence of public government.  The artificial anti-christ.

** Right!  And that’s exactly what they did with this lady’s property is they paid her property tax and billed her.

R: Yes!  So you see, once they do that then what they’ve done is take the account into equity, so that’s why the taxes don’t show up in the public any longer.  Okay so you can’t go in and actually get them from the …

** That’s right cause she couldn’t pay them then herself.

R: Right.  Okay now this is what we need to do to see if there is any way or methods to prevent us from going in there on the first assessment.   That’s why I’ve been looking and visited with the County Commissioner this morning and I’ve been set up with a meeting to where I can have a private meeting with the County Auditor.

** Well they send the bills out here so they arrive by the first of February.  So if we went over there before they sent the bills out we could pay them.

R: Right.  That’s when you need to do it because I think these attorneys are probably going to be a little sloppy to get in there and pay them ahead of you.  That’s why I want to know the exact precise moment that those eligible for payment.

** Oh yeah we’re right in the midst of January.  They are going to start sending them out…

R: Yeah, but I don’t care about the first day.  I mean I want to be there the first second.  Because you’re probably going to be shoulder to shoulder with some attorney representing some bank that is going to pay them off.   Now maybe the County Treasurer is going to take his check ahead of your but I’d say, “No you take mine here for that property.”  At that point I could see that I could cause all kinds of problems for that County Treasurer cause it’s my property and I’m putting the instrument of payment and I’ve even got a better check than the attorney because I’m going to give them a check on a closed (private) account.  That thing is exempt from any levy or anything else.  And if that County Treasurer tries to take his check over mine, then that County Treasurer just surrendered everything he owns to me.

** Well that building that I purchased of K*, I could go over there and pay the taxes also with my private check…

R: Oh you betcha!

** Then I could go over there and take ownership.

R: Yes!  But don’t you expect that the bank has already paid the tax?

** I don’t know.  See sometimes people pay the taxes also for the year instead of two installments a year.

R: Well see …

** I think you are always 6 months in advance… but I could be wrong…

R: Yeah but you see whenever it is assessed.  Well see if they know what it is, it is probably already 6 months in arrears.  But it’s 6 months before they make it available to the public to purchase.   So I think we have to go there and pay them ahead of time.

** Seems like California law says that you have to openly and notoriously pay the taxes for 5 years before you can make claim to it…. But than that’s statutory.

R: Let who do that?

** Like if somebody is trying to take over the property and pay the taxes if they suspect you are in financial trouble or something, course we are doing this different, more on the private…

R: Okay.  But than what is the property assessment value?   See back here we have, say like back here in Minneapolis we have a building for 1.3 million, but then the assessments have to be made by law 85% of the market value.

** See because of Prop 13 they establish the tax value at 1.25% of what the new buyer paid for the property.  I don’t know how much they can increase it per year to current owners.   I think there is a limit of how much they can increase it a year.

R: Oh okay then you just buy it the first time around.  That increase is probably the interest rates they pay on the certificates than.  I know in Minn. Is 10% and in Arizona it’s 16%.  And in Iowa it’s 24% and I heard that, and this might already be passed into law in California, that California was going to go similar to other states and that would be 18%.

** Okay.  They are trying to get rid of Prop 13 or make some changes to try to raise property tax.  I don’t think they can raise it but about 1% a year.  Maybe they raised it some but I don’t think they can raise it that much.

R: Well how long has that been?

** It’s been since 1987 and they might have increased more than I realize.

R: These changes have been in the last 2 or 3 years these changes I’m talking about.  It was expected that California would settle at 18% interest that they would be running at.

** So if I buy a house for say $200,000 the property tax would be 1.25% or $2500.  and then the next year they can raise my taxes by $450, or 18% ?

R: Yep!  And you’re going to have to pay that.  Now if I go in there and I pick up the first years delinquency, I don’t have to own any more than that.  You’re going to have to pay me the full interest on it when you pick up the tax bill.  And that could go clear out to the 3 or 5 years whatever it is.  At that time I’m in a first position and the rest of it is shed.

** Now we can just go start taking equity with our private accounts?

R: Sure.  Yeah and then don’t worry about the rest of it.  The only time that you might have to be consider an alert is if it goes to foreclosure and than when they auction it off and if nobody else bids on it than you’ve got it.  Okay?

** Okay.

R: Now you can own the house for the price of the taxes.  Now I really wanted to stay out of this cause that would be getting into the real estate business so I would want somebody to be there to over bid and then I would get paid.  Another thing, in the state of Michigan it is like 20%, any way if at the end of the first year if the owner hasn’t come in and paid the taxes and paid your certificate, it goes to 50%, after that it is what they owe after the first year now it is running at 150% on the 2nd year.

** I wonder if it would work better if we traded property from one state to another?

R: That’s not really necessary.  You can find out what they are and send them a check.

** That’s true too.  Okay

R: See because these checks that we’re using on the private accounts I can see right here they recognize the holding company and that is where my private account is.

** Oh by the way some of the mail order houses actually acknowledge closed accounts and they actually send you receipts and everything just like they are suppose to.

R: That’s right and if you take a look at some of these companies right on their invoice sometimes they will say, -Personal checks will be debited.  Well if they’ll be debited they’re telling you electronics funds transfer.  Sometimes they will tell you that all checks will be debited and some will say they will have $20 charge on them for NSF.  They are already contracting with you right there that this is the way we’ll handle it.  We’ll process the check and we’ll charge you another $20 bucks, but who cares.

** Exactly!

End