*** Hey just thought I’d give a call and find out if there is anything planned on you coming out this way this year.

R: Well I’ve got so much paperwork I’ve got to catch up on…

*** Yeah, that’s kind of an something that never seems to end…. But there is a rumor going on that you may come out this way.

R: I’ve talked about it but so far nothings developed yet for this year.  I don’t know.

*** It’s still on your mind then?

R: Yeah, some.  I’m not as hard pressed here.  I’m just going to wait and see if things will clear up enough to get me comfortable enough to do it.  So I don’t know.

*** Are you holding a concern for like the Michigan group? Or other people?

R: Yeah some of that too.  It’s some of that and kind of other things don’t settle down for me to leave.  And then I need to clean up all these loose ends that I have around here.  That’s really what I’m talking about when I’m talking about is this tackling this pile of paper I have here.

*** You’re talking about paperwork that’s connected with this activity though, right?

R: Well sort of but this is all the mail that comes in too and I use it to develop the offer and acceptance.   That’s what all this mail is that’s coming through here.  I’ve ordered stuff and then they always attack you at least 5 or 6 times before you get a chance to address it and shake it off the hook.  You know when you go fishing you pull the fish in out of the water on the line here you know how they wiggle.

*** Oh yeah.  Well my main … I have probably a ton of things here.  For instance, I know that ** and R*j were working on a letter to the US Attorney and I know she wants to fax it to you and I told her that I’ve been wanting to talk to you for awhile.  I’ve got so much input from the various activities that it’s not necessary for me to trouble your time.  But this letter … well you know R** is due back in court Wednesday and if they don’t cut him out that letter is the one R*j got ready for the US Attorney.  She’s got it sanitized and she wanted to fax it to you so I’ll let her know that you’re home.  One of the things that I’m rather proud of R* for is his activity right now is a genuine expression of faith.  Would you agree with that?

R: Oh yeah.

*** And one of the things you kind of know where I was in the religious world at one time.  I think I’ve completely shed that, thanks to new understanding of what’s going on in the world, but it seems these people want the grace without the Christ.

R: chuckle

*** I can’t see them making the decision to accept the grace and not try to learn more about the background of how they’ve been able to use the bible as an instrument of our government and we deny our grace why then I guess we’re canon father.

R: Well yeah because that is the public policy.

*** And too many people are …I think, going back to the Hebrew and Greek studying the scriptures and laying the foundation.  I think they believe they think this is a religious exercise I’m trying to pull off out here, which of course it isn’t.

R: No well the religious exercise is to create an artificial fact.  That is really what they call religion is just politics.

*** I made this comment too.  I don’t see how anyone coming to this understanding, that’s why I believe they’ve missed this understanding.  I don’t see how they can belong to a 501c3 church, which is a public institution that is going to teach you a public religion.

R: Yeah, yeah.  The public has a definition that says well so it looks like the children of the public are the same as the owners.  They’re children of the nobility.  And whenever we have the public guaranteeing these so called rights to their children we don’t need these guarantees here because we’re the owners and the nobility is only created here to serve the owners.

*** Well aren’t we basically becoming nobles ourselves?  (Chuckling)

R: Weeellll! (Chuckling)

*** You understand what I said, right?

R: yeah!

*** It seems to me if there’s no system created to pay for the owner, than it’s a no bill situation.

R: Nobles! (chuckling).  Well if we had no bills then there’s no controversy.

*** Right.  That’s kind of where we’re at.   But this thing with R* and of course the group back in Michigan are under the same stress right now.

R: Well I think we’re going to probably see some things emerge because given the background we haven’t been actually been apprised of what is actually holding these people.  Most of the area has been hit and we don’t yet fully understand yet where and how they’re being held.  They’ve been hit from quite a number of sides.  I ran into something interesting from talking to people, not from that faction but someone I met from another part of the country.  I think we’ve talked about this before but not in the light that might be running.  It’s form 9131 or 9132. Okay well in some respects, there are people and I don’t even know who they are specifically, because there has been some talk in the back ground here with some things going on in areas I was dealing with and I just didn’t have enough time and energy and things like that to look into it any further.  But the form its self apparently is the expenses the methods of all actions against all people.  And if they come against you for loitering in the street or something that’s claiming that’s a crime and all that kind of crap…

*** Right

R: Well even if they say they are coming after someone for say, willful failure to file or for trumping up a murder case… whatever.  It doesn’t make any difference what it is.  This form, what did I say it was…

*** Oh 9132

R: Right 9132.  It’s disclosure form with the Internal Revenue that discloses that this action to be able to prosecute the action there has to be a financial disclosure of some sort.  It makes all cases, all charges junk charges.

*** I can relate to that.  I’m beginning to understand that money is the main drug.

R: Yeah.  But you see there is no money.

*** Well that’s true but…that’s …

R: Yeah but see you have to approach before we jump to quick and say we understand what money is and what money isn’t.  Approach it a little slower and when we say we’re talking about exchange we’re talking about ex-officio.  Which means like ex-wife.  We’re talking about your wife that she’s not anymore.  And that’s the same thing when we’re talking about exchange.  It means it’s not here… it’s not around anymore but we’re talking about the lady that was.  It’s too often I think that its in how we express how you are talking about what’s going on in the controversy.  I suspect they’ve taken some simple position just in the way people describe events to try and shake off what is going on around them.  You have to start describing something somewhere.  I think what we need to do as a matter of fact, this particular form, when we start asking for these disclosures in part, regardless of what happens, when you go into the criminal proceedings they try to assume that there is no such think as discovery because that is civil.  Well… I’m not so sure we can separate what they call civil from criminal proceedings.  Lets just say for instance if you are going to identify a payee….  See if you thought the ones you’re use to speaking with and the ones I’m use to speaking with we start talking about how to address the problem and pretty soon I hear some people talking about payee and one thing and another and in the criminal process there is none… payee!  There isn’t any.

*** They don’t have any other jurisdiction in criminal do they?

R: No!

*** The only way it can be civil is if I were to bring my neighbor into court in an pursue an action…

R: I don’t know if we even want to sum that up… or use it as an example.  I don’t want to focus my energy so hard here on that right now.

*** Oh yeah, that was another thing that we I wanted to talk to you about… If we have an opportunity to meet this year, I think it can be more conversation than for us to rack your brain like we did.  I think for the whole of the group, we’ve grasped the concepts and it moves…

R: No… No it is not stationery.  That’s one of the reasons I wanted to stick around here and see how this plays out.  So far this hasn’t happened the way it should….  The whole year has been like this.  The whole dang year.  On this farm and everything.  Everything has been so dammed persistent in all of the implied obligations that have these straggling details that keep you tied down.  They don’t let you get something cleaned up so you can say okay well this is done and now get on to the next deal.   And that is just like these so called attorneys trained to keep socking away at you  with all these little details when you’re just trying to wash ‘em off and move on.  None of them want to be gotten rid of.

*** Well, there is a situation that’s developed.  I’m sure ** will fill you in on it when you talk to her.  I guess you talk to some of the people back in Mich.

R: Oh yeah yeah…

*** Well she recently did a draft on her husband who was in jail for private checks… did you know about that?

R: yeah, yeah

*** Seems they know somebody in the court system, keeping them informed.  She apparently paid the bail amount to get him out of jail with a draft and someone from the inside the system said they were obliged to take the drafts.  However, he still has to go to court for something, I’m not sure what the deal is all about.  Now another thing that happened was she had a bill of sale on a piece of property that was going up for auction and she stopped the action by telling them she owned the property and someone took it to the judge and the judge gave the decision in her favor.  I’m not totally clear on all this but when you talk to her she’ll probably clear up the details.

R: Okay well I’m not up to speed on those deals.   I knew they were doing this, but I haven’t had a chance to get into all the details with all that’s going on.

*** Now we’re getting some examples though of some of the efforts working.  The problem is we don’t know if it is going to work for all of us all the time doing the same thing.

R: Well they aren’t going to work generally.  See they are all personal and some don’t want to reveal.  We can’t treat them generally.

*** See it’s like that form 9132 that mentioned earlier.  That isn’t the one that is the equity notice is it?

R: I don’t really know.  I don’t know what the specifics are.  I just know there has been some reason to use these because those would be the forms the Internal Revenue uses and that’s how they’re used to take and commence a drug action.  In other words, they’re reporting the substance here that they use to prosecute a case.  So some of these have to be simple common denominators because these nobilities are probably inbreed simpletons.  You see, and being inbreed they are probable odd balls.  (chuckles and *** Laughter)
So some of this stuff they use here, these so called licenses, to continue to march ahead and here sets the charge.  Because here is the problem….when they come and threaten you with charges, what you need to do is tell them, “Yeah, give me the charges so I can take it accept it and return it for settlement.”  Accept it and return it for settlement.  Okay?

*** Yeah.

R: But they never give you the charges, because if you get the charge then you can make the settlement.  So everybody goes to jail for the absence of charges.

*** Yeah that’s how it appears.

R: That’s what it is!  See because once the charge has been made and accepted you now have the ability to return it.  See you cannot take it into your personal possession because you have holders in due course who are the holders.  Let’s just say that each person here who works your account.  Let’s just say that person’s name is Glove, okay?  So we put that glove on.  You know we have a glove who says “I’m your creditor.”  So we put that glove on and take on that creditor.  Now we have another member of the same family and says “I’m Glove Left”, so you put that glove on the left.  Now you have a pair of gloves on.  So now you see the gloves are the holder of the charge.  Now with these gloves on now you tell them bring the charge on and you take it.  Now one of your gloves will take it and hold it.  See if they come with a warrant first then you’ll probably take it and grab it with the left.  The charge.  Now if they come with an order for the warrant first then the right glove takes it.  Lets just say that these are hot wires.  You see you have gloves on… you can’t hold it with your bare hands you need insulation so you don’t get electrocuted.

*** chuckles.

R: See that’s what happens.  What you’re doing then when you bring these two together.  These gloves are simply the people who are the holders-in-due-course.  But you can’t hold it with your bare hands.  That’s why in this universal jurisdiction you have to have agents who are holders for you.   Holders-in-due-course and their name is glove.   You have gloves on because you are handling hot wires.  So now we’re just going to tie those two wires together and close the circuit instead of having the energy bounce back like alternating current.  That’s what makes alternating current that goes around the world until it hits the barrier then it bounces back the other way until it hits the barrier again.  That’s your alternating current.   But you see we find a way for the current to pass through to keep going and keep moving in the same location, instead of back and forth.  Instead of a vibration now it smoothes out and we’re now going in a circle.  Now that’s how you develop the firing order on a gas engine.  For instance, you have the rotator that turns and delivering the spark into the appropriate cylinder, but you see, to keep the alternating current from going in reverse you have a alternator somewhere in the mechanism to alternate and keep the advancing rotation of the hot wire.  You know you have to break the circuit and it’s the alternator that keeps doing that to keep the spark going to the next cylinder.

*** Is that in, lets just put it like in R*’s case obviously there was some kind of mishap on his part that tore these people loose and that’s why they’re able to keep him?

R: Probably!  Yeah.

*** They probably picked up a consent somewhere.

R: Yes and they’ve assumed it in an area that isn’t public, see?

*** You mean in an area we haven’t covered yet?

R: Yeah.  That’s what I’m saying and that’s the only way of us finding out cause these people keep everything in secret.

*** No question about that.

R: So every time they do something they have to reveal their secrets and so as long as we keep their feet to the fire they have to keep revealing to us their secrets.   Course that’s what we’re doing so now they’re getting hard pressed to this account because we are examining the things that they are doing here with a real critical eye.  They have never been examined this closely before!

*** That’s for damn sure!

R:  With such a wild audience….

*** It’s probably pretty big by now….

R: Yeah, oh yeah.  And see this form 9132 we’ve been talking about, that’s when we request that disclosure from the responsible parties who are prosecuting the action.   The United States Attorney or the States Attorney.  You know?  Anybody else that does it is just somebody in between that’s under those two jurisdictions and those two parties don’t necessarily know what the hoodlums are doing.  Because these people are bounty hunters.  They’re out here privately running a pirate ship for their own profit.

*** And they’re using the public office to cover their tracks…

R: Yeah.  Well you see it puts up against … well it puts us out in an international battle.  When you’re in the international jurisdiction and you’re up against a man of war, you see, your handguns don’t do you any good.  When somebody has a .38 or 45 caliber and come up against me well I know the U.S. Attorney that stood up in a court room and said I was a loose canon.

*** Yeah…

R: Well, that’s just telling the court room that this is an international battle and I am capable of operating a man of war.  I’ve got a canon here. Mine might be a 16 inch where the .38 or 45 is what?  3/8 of an inch?

*** Thereabouts

R: That’s quite a difference!  (chuckles)

*** The .38 and the 380 are what… 9 mm?  That’s almost identical in size.

R: Well I’ve got a 16 inch canon as opposed to that.  I can set 20 miles out and drive them out of the water and you can’t even come into sight of me here.

*** That’s probably why they don’t try to mess with you at all.  I don’t see them coming after you the way I know in some of the earlier conversations you were at the court and talking to some treasury agent or some secret service was involved or whatever…

R: See these have happened to me.  But you see what I think what they have done, when I was charged I was charged with 4000 accounts of 1099s.  Well when I accept those charges, they belong to me.  I’m not in possession of them.  There are other people who are in possession of them… my gloves are.  My family of gloves are in possession of my 4000 accounts of 1099s.  They also stated that those 4000 1099’s are worth in 21 billion dollars.  And you see I think what they have done, like in Michigan for instance, they’ve taken those 8300 reports of that property and I think they are using that property to prosecute those people in that action out there.  Those people probably were some of those 1099s of those 4000 1099 accounts that they said were mine.  They didn’t put up any fuss when I told them “I’ll accept those.  Those are mine.”  They didn’t give me any problem over it.  Then just before they started to prosecute those people in Michigan, they came around to see me again and wanted me to reaffirm that these were the 8300 forms that I had signed.

*** You had signed them before going to prison?

R: No I had done that here.  I don’t even remember when I did it whether I was still in prison or shortly after I got out.  But you see what I’m saying is that I always felt they had used me to pass the national debt through my person into the international community… to zero out the national liability for that much money, because that’s what was stated in the indictment-- in the true bill.  Okay?   So it’s likely they took these charges or the Treasury did and are charging these people… see because that kind of energy is not the negative level energy.  But you see those would actually be charges though they need to be brought back to the owners.  Those would be charges in fact, whereas before they never had those… They had an assumption.  It’s still going to be prosecuted to where they know they’d never get me to sit in a witness chair and testify because I would call them.  When it comes down that way it still boils down to the guys that have claims against those people are going to be the ones who have to be called into question.  If they’re bringing the charges then they’re bringing them because I didn’t tell them to bring them against them.  If they are going to bring them against them then they need to bring them against everybody because those people don’t represent 21 billion dollars.

*** No but they certainly figured you were worth it in some miraculous way.

R: Well, I’m sure they just put people out there and pass the charge through to obtain a discharge.  See I think they’re dropping all these bombs over in Afghanistan and they found a place that they can let all these explosions occur.  But I’m not so sure that they’re explosions the way they’re running them into these mountains I think they are probably trying to base them on implosion.  In other words bringing the mountain down.  Because they have tunnels that was all done by the CIA and CIA money that did that in the first place.  So now they’re bringing the equal value in there in the form of bonds to zero out the account.

*** Yeah, well I had kind of mixed feelings about what took place in New York on 9-11 because it seems like now they are grooming the public to look at us like we’re terrorists.

R: Oh yeah, yeah!  But you see, here is what’s happening.  What I was telling you, what they would be doing is nationalizing all the property.  You see because that property isn’t worth anything.  And they bring that to zero.  When they bring that to zero now you see that leaves it open.  I can see around here all the outlaying farming areas outside of the cities.  I live in a very rural area.  I see that it is continually going down hill almost daily.  Well then that means that we have to re-settle the territory.  In other words, we’re now making settlements in a new frontier.

*** Yeah, I can agree with that.

R: A frontier is a territory before there are enough settlements made to bring about a post exchange.

*** A trading post!

R: Yeah.  They have to bring about a military post in here to bring law and order in.  So now what we’re doing is we are settling a new terri tory. -- Terror tory.  See because they cannot prove that these territories have been settled before… why?  Because there’s just been a transfer and there hasn’t been a redemption!  The only thing that was ever redeemed was the government.  The people were never redeemed!  So now the settlements in the new territory are going to be made by the people redeeming them professionally!  So you see that’s why they talk about this terrorist because you put the word down and it’s terror I tory.

*** Yeah…

R: It means the tories.  In other words it’s the bringing in of public policy.  Public policy means exchange.  In other words there is no money and it’s an exchange of prisoners.

*** Wow

R: So we’re just making settlements in the new territory.   And the same evolution probably occurs.  We learn from the other one that when you move into the new territory you establish a new settlement you also bring in a post of change…. A post office.

*** You use the post office as a deposit in the mail?

R: Well the military also works with telegraph and electronic fund transfers now.

*** Did you hear that L* was trying to get the Provost marshal involved in his situation?

R: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  That’s fine but he can go with all these grandiose ideas but he’s got to get the fundamentals down first before he can command those kind of things.

*** I think he’s probably in a hard place now to try to get those fundamentals down.  It just never stuck when he was out here.

R: He was trying to hard to be the head honcho.

*** You know at one time you made a comment about your salutation at the end of your correspondence…  forever yours…  I was watching a movie the other night about Oliver Wendell Holmes, he was one of our early Supreme Court Justices.  In the movie he had a bunch of young attorneys around him and on their way to dinner he told these youngsters… Many happy returns.  I thought that was a pretty fancy salutation that went with what we’re doing here.  (chuckles)

R: Well here’s something else you might look for.  The other night I saw, this come on public television out here, they had Jimmy Carter on.  The topic they were discussing was his role in the hostages in Iran when he was going out of office.  He was discussing all of that and of course they were bringing up the reasons they were discussing all of that was to discuss the last suicide attack on Israel.  You see, on the Palestinians.  And of course how many of these people resorted to suicide as a method of refuting these matters.  I can’t remember … I wish I could remember how to express the elements that he said had to be there before you can have a lasting peace negotiation.  He said they successfully did some of it that are still binding today and have not been violated.  He went on to tell about it… and then some of them that were unsuccessful.  Anyway, the commentator or master of ceremonies he kept challenging him to well some of these conditions probably won’t fly here and now.  One of these was here when he said the two growing parties will have to come to agreements.  The only thing I can say about that right now is obviously agreements.  Obviously agreeing not to violate each other’s territory or rights.  But you know there is a 3rd element that has to be in these settlements and if you don’t even address them you’re not going to be successful.  And this 3rd element was return.  In other words the Palestinians have hundreds of thousands of people they want returned back to the territory that they were tossed out of.  Of course these Israelis moved in and settled it.  Well obviously all of the people are not going to be… well there are some irreparable damages, but then after that they would have come with a formula that would be agreeable to both sides as to the people that can not be moved by return there has to be other compensation in there that they will agree to.  They said that is not possible and he said, “Oh yes that is very possible.”  This is one element that can be worked and it has to be there to make it work.

*** Well I’m a little… not really paranoid but it seems to me that part of the scriptural that the prognosis of today that all of these nations have joined together and in my opinion it’s to see to it that the blessings of Abraham never get dispersed.  So what took place between Afghanistan and the towers, in my opinion, was orchestrated by this government, probably CIA.  I can’t imagine anybody without having some really technical training being able to pick off 4 airplanes from 4 different location within minutes of each other all with the same goal in mind and that no one got wind of it in our so called intelligence people in this country.

R: The intelligence people did it.  Because just like what is going on in the bombing of Afghanistan now… all those tunnels they are bombing over there now were created by CIA.

*** Yeah I heard somebody else made that comment.

R: Right we just have to follow the money.  Oh we have that much money went in there.  Now it is going to take this much money going in there to zero it out.  It’s that simple to me, in that respect.  So you see what they are doing when they displace people and run them out of an area they’re enforcing or coveting their neighbor’s property.  They are forcing them out of there with an assumed agreement against their neighbors…

*** Yeah

R: Okay, well see they have to come back under the peace agreements.  And there has to be a return!  And that return is far reaching.  I don’t even want to open up any other dimensions now of discussion.  We’ve got enough here and those other areas will become obvious as you immerse yourself in this topic.

*** Well interestingly enough my whole life has started over again, so now I’m trying to get an education instead of a public brain washing.  It isn’t the things I’ve studied in the past were necessarily negative it’s just that now having to go back over that stuff I have a new understanding of where it’s all been taking me and where it was going.

R: Now you can start to put some value to it.

*** In fact yesterday.  I don’t know if I mentioned I stopped by a book store, used book store, I picked up a book from the Lincoln Library, I don’t know what year it was.  Then I got another one on Josephus.  It was a used book so I got a pretty decent price there and in all the years…  See if I would of read this book on Josephus 25 years ago when I was studying with Bill, everything would be so different than what I would read and understand now.  Because you talk about land mines, this language is just absolutely something else.  In fact I was reading some stuff out of my 1910 Brittanica on Aristotle.  He was a student of Plato.  Well Plato came up with a maxim of what we say cause its in quotes.  What we say and what we say is in quotes and they definitely wanted that to go out.  Justice is blind but can hear damn well.

R: Oh yeah but you see when you use the word quote, you carry that into mathematics.  Like a quote or quotient….  And that being a result of a division.

*** Yeah… yeah

R: See that’s what happens here when they are making quotes.  So when you get a quote they are dividing and I suspect that they use a quote as opposed to an offer.  A quote is just half of an offer.  It’s a divided part of an offer so they can assume common law.  It’s half and half or 50/50.

*** Hope we’re not telling them a trick they need to learn.  (chuckles)

R: No! No! I’ve seen it done.   So we just try to pass the word and when the word quotient
/quote comes up we just start to take particular notice of it.  In another light they are coming up with something deceptive and not the usual.  See?  We have to deal with it when we’re dealing with the government on the farm with the subsides and one thing and another, we’re dealing with quotas.  When you reach a quota, you’re full.  But you’re only ½ full, because it’s a divided portion.

*** Well other things that are driving this to, whether you want to call it electrical, or another kind of understanding, I got to thinking about when I went to sign up for the draft a long, long, long time ago.  30-40 years ago and just had another birthday…  Anyway you have to go to an induction center.  Then I was listening to something about this Afghanistan War where they sent in their main military battery and of course a battery is another item that is electric or a power source.  This whole thing… I don’t know whether we ought to be studying Faraday or not.

R: You see your battery, when you’ve got a battery of 16 inches aboard ship you let you the charge go you know what happens.

*** Yeah

R: Release the charge and that’s what we’re doing you see when we got the closed account, we’re closing the circuit.  It’s just like when you throw a light switch in your room there, when you throw the switch to turn on the light, you’re closing the circuit.  Now you see we use to have circuit judges… chuckles

*** Well don’t they still call them circuits? … like night circuits and all that?

R: Yeah when it was still open, but it’s closed now.   (more chuckles)  These are the things are at play.  All this technology is being bundled up and tucked into the internet and into the exchange of the computers.

*** Well do you think the internet is the net… like the net to trap us?

R: No it’s just the highway.

*** Okay.

R: Just the highway for commerce and they have a lot of highway men out there in disguise.

*** Right!  Well if I don’t misunderstand… they aren’t suppose to enter commerce ever… They are industrial and that’s where they should stay!

R: Yeah!  And you see they are titles of nobility and that’s fine as long as they want to come in there in their disguise an pass on the highway and don’t violate us they use that to combat their other enemies of nobility.  But when they run into somebody like you or I that has got something of real value and they try to wage war on it why they are subject to us redeeming the charge.   See they don’t have the redeemer.  They only transfer the charge and try to fake the redemption and you see by transferring it in such a place and a way that no one can readily identify them.  To create the illusion of redemption.

*** Well you know, we had discussed, way, way, way back, I’m going to say a couple of years ago, there was an event that took place a couple of thousand years ago and the man has been identified to us in this language as Jesus, but I don’t believe that he ever necessarily indicated that he was the Christ at least not until the crucifixion.  Because he had asked them, what do you think fellows think about the Christ?  Evidently it was something as constant…..

R: Well he was getting the witnesses to testify.  But you see that was the creation of the strawman.  It’s an allegory.  But you see there is something more than that.  We talk about the strawman, but it’s not a strawman in this jurisdiction it’s a reflection.  It’s a mirror image!  That’s why you have to be there for your mirror image to be there.  Be in the count so they can make the exchange.  See they’ve made it to where the exchange can’t be made unless you’re there…

*** Okay!

R: And they use that as an excuse to arrest you and jerk you around like they do.  On things they know and you don’t know.  Now maybe, we need to commit to people who are good with language is to simple develop the language to call forth so they can’t hang back and come forth with something other than… well something less than what we’ve asked for.  We’re not applying the language on them tight enough.  I already know that.

*** Yeah well it’s pretty difficult to even open your mouth.  We live in a country that anything you say, can and will be used against you, so it’s very difficult to even open your mouth.

R: Yeah well what I’m talking about you don’t even have to open your mouth.  I’m talking about formulating the language, you can write that down into your indirect evidence and you should put that in writing and request the information and that’s just what we started to talk about in the beginning of this conversation.  Like this form 9131 or 9132?

*** Right.

R: The guys that first made me aware that something was there said that when this was applied in some cases, the case was dropped-- immediately.  And for the reason is, is it reveals that money or it reveals the drug charge and how much it is…. And what it is.  That all of these cases, they might charge you and say you’re guilty of shoplifting or something and yet it’s simply a drug charge.  See these people that bring the charges get wages and salary and other types of payoff for doing it.  So there is… or some value has to be addressed in this matter.  Because when I was dealing with my PO she was sort of antagonistic in my conversation with her.  So when she told me, Mr. E* you’re going to make telephone calls and you’re going to do this and you’re going to do that.  Well see I wasn’t dumb enough at that point to tell her “No I am not going to do any of that!”  Because a refusal is fatal!  Well then, I told her, “You’re going to pay my phone bills then.”  She said, “No, I’ll get you a pager.”  Well maybe I’ll get me a page boy… that means I’m sittin’ at the senate.  (chuckles)  Then I said, “Well then I guess you’re going to pay my grocery bills?”  Then she said, “Well why would I do that?”  “Well it takes energy to talk on the phone,” I told her, “and I have to eat groceries to get energy to talk and somebody has to pay for the groceries.”

*** And you can’t expend your energy time and when you expend your energy in conversation, you certainly can’t be earning the money for the substance for you table.

R: Well it isn’t that!  It’s not that because the energy has to be balanced or it’s a lethal charge.

*** For you to have made that call?

R: Well yeah, but she’s making a lethal charge if I have to pay for the call!  And if it’s not paying for the telephone call that she’s giving me a pager and everything and I’ve got that and she’s stating I have to make the call and I tell her than you’re going to pay for the groceries.  In other words she’s going to pay for everything that causes me to move in accordance to her dictates.  Well her comment back to me was, “Okay, Mr. E*, I see where you’re coming from.”  After that I didn’t have any more problem with her.  Then her and I could carry on a conversation like normal.

*** I know when I was released from the zoo, they indicated that I was going to be on probation, which I guess you go on probation whether you sign, do or whatever when you get out before you time served.  I told them, “I have no intention of ever reporting to a parole officer, so what’s the next grille on that.”  They said, “Well we’ll just violate you in 72 hours and you’ll have to come back here and finish you time.”  I said, “I’ll go down the street to a motel and stay 72 hours and I’ll just come back here and spend the rest of my time.  Just don’t let me think that when I’m out of here that I’m going to go running after you jerks again… I’ve had enough of you.”  Course I was in relatively a nice camp I guess in a sense out there in the middle of the Mojave Dessert, but aside from that…

R: Where were you at, Mills?

*** No Edwards… Edwards Airforce.

R: Oh, okay.

*** You know I worked out there, but I was at the Boron Prison.  But what the hell there wasn’t even a fence around it.  They couldn’t even get you for jail breaking if you walked away.

R: Well you know what boron is?  Boron is an atomic substance that’s used to shut down nuclear reactors.

*** Not the physical boron… lets see… boron doesn’t come from borax does it?  Cause you know they’ve got that mine going on out there that’s been running for a hundred years now…

R: We don’t want to get into that now.

*** Well I guess I’ll let you off the hook now.  I’ll call B* and let her know you’re home so she can fax you that info and give you a chance to review it….

R: Yeah okay.  Well we’ll see.  Sometimes the phone starts jumping off the hook.

*** It’s just a one page letter it might be two, just one page letters…  Sure wish you could figure out a way to get out here though.    If you fly, getting off the ground is the biggest problem.

R: Well I don’t let this kind of stuff get in my way.  You’re always going to have something when you get in the public.  I travel light enough.  All these cry babies are all these public wards…

*** I just want you to know I’d front you a ticket to get you from up there where you’re going to bring you down to Orange County.  We’ll do whatever it takes to make it more convenient for you.
We have one fellow that’s probably done 4000 checks on his private account and that bank has got to be getting paranoid but it’s been over 6 months now.  So it ain’t like they know when his checks come through that…

R: Who is that?

*** This is a younger fellow… I always say younger, compared to me, but he’s about in his 30’s I don’t know.  He’s not trying to do things like everyone else does…but he orders everything under the cotton pickin sun and he goes to stores and buys stuff and they want to run a Veri-check on his check and he tells them, “Hold up, go get the company policy out here I want to see where you have the right to violate my privacy.”  He gets into it with them over everything.

R: That’s good!  That’s okay.  As long as he can handle it.  Everybody has got their own thing.

*** Yeah, he tells them, “Look, that’s my product.  It belongs to me now and I’m not leaving this store until it’s in my possession.”

R: Well he’s starting to get a grip on what this stuff is made of and he is going to part there hand on some other areas and will let us see a little more clearly of what’s going on.

*** He’s another, not quite as fast a talker as K*,… (chuckles).

R: I told K* to start to bring his speech… well kind of reign it in.  These people they live on that.  The provoking people to get their mouth going.  That’s exactly the science that these interrogators are trained in.

*** Absolutely!  I’m beginning to understand that.

R: Let me give you another example.   A friend of mine, whose son-in-law is the sheriff of the county left of me.  He’s being charged now.  He’s had an action and a claim brought against him by one of his deputies.  It’s a female and she’s a juvenile investigator and she’s accused him of making sexual advances on her and stalking her.   Stalk like stock???  Okay now she never got anywhere coming at him with a criminal charge on the criminal side filing a complaint with the county.  She never even actually got a formal complaint filed with them because they said it wasn’t eligible.  So then she commence to file an action in the U.S. Court, Federal Court.  So now she’s bringing a civil action on him.  The minute he went on-an he should of never done it-but he isn’tt going to listen to me until he’s in so damn much trouble, and I’m kind of hoping he doesn’t destroy his family in the mean time.  So what happened, the minute he went on TV to tell everybody there are certain things he can’t talk about but he’s not going to make settlement with her because the charges are all false and bla bla bla.  Okay that opened the door where they can make all the nasty insinuating charges in the newspapers now.  If he hadn’t of done that he wouldn’t have had to go through all that crap.  But now you see she accused him of having to perform oral sex and things like that.  Well you know what that oral sex is?  Just like I had some people that we were talking about the other day… I said, “We’re having oral sex right now.”

*** Conversation.

R: Yeah.  So then when she was talking about, he was groping her…things like that.  Well that’s when they had their hands on the commercial employment instruments.  You see that had to do with her employment.  And in discussion and handing it back and forth and examining the papers and the counts.  And the accounts that she’s investigating.  Those are all the sexual groping she’s talking about.  The reason she is doing that is because I know that she knows she can call a witness.  Okay?  The witness is going to be another female in the department that is speaking for the sheriff.  In other words, he isn’t around anywhere and besides he is not the one being accused it is the strawman that is being accused.  He doesn’t know that yet.  He’s been to blinded over the years that my comments might help him through this.   Might also help keep his family together.  Otherwise I can see already that within his family they are starting to show signs of doubt.  Not in any big way, but I know what’s coming.

*** Yeah

R: It’s going to take them down.  You see in a situation like that, the sheriff has all these people in these departments now will act for his benefit.  So now she’s got one of her girl friends and they set in a private place and they have communications and this other lady is actually engaged in oral conversation …oral sex (chuckles) when she is talking to her about her boss, the sheriff.  So she can actually can get on the stand and say “Yeah I over heard this part of the conversation and I over heard the sheriff said this and she said that…”  It’s a-- she said… he said.  (more chuckles)  On it goes… on goes the soap opera!  See this soap opera is going on back here in the newspapers!  It’s one of the reasons why I’m not real free and anxious to leave.  They’re finally starting to see that I’m the only one that they can possible see that can help this situation cause it can get totally out of hand.

*** Well that has to be important to you.  I can see that.  You got to keep the home fires burning.

R: So you see that’s just another dimension that we deal with.   See I know another reason they are after him is because what this lady is asking for damages is amounts of money that he has signed that he is personally liable for in the sheriffs department, even before he became sheriff.   Before he became sheriff he was the federal boy that was their shining example in the sheriff’s department that was applying for all these federal benefits.  That could come into the sheriffs department simply by somebody in there requesting them or signing and requesting the grants.  He was getting them all.  Why he was bringing so much hardware in there, that the sheriff that was in there ahead of him just stepped back because he felt intimidated by all the financial activity he was bringing into the department.

*** Wow

R: And not only that and in a big way they even built a new law enforcement center.  That’s basically the one they use in this area up here to house federal prisoners.  But this here is on the county basis.   Then you see the straw that broke the camels back or the one that I saw and I knew then that he was initially was going to have to answer for it in the public.  He had been undergoing the pressure from the Feds, you see, that to have their financing withdrawn that if they didn’t cover certain areas of law enforcement that would require added manpower.  So he has to keep adding deputies to the staff.  Finally they had a couple of them that were on deck for month but the county commissioners could never make up their minds for some reason to fund it and to authorize the hiring of those deputies.  Of course he had some deputies standing by that he wanted to work for him.  Thought they were going to come on earlier… kinda told them these positions are open but they just kept putting them off and putting, putting them off until these guys were going to eventually going to disappear.  So finally he exercised what he finds in a state statute that authorizes him to hire them.  But when he hired them over and above the commercial overseers, which would be the commissioners and he did it himself I knew then some day they would come after him for that.  And they are going to make him accountable for the kind of personal financing that he did to finance the operation of the sheriffs department.  I’ll be he still doesn’t know that’s the reason that this he’s being nailed.  This lady is the one that’s going to do it.

*** Wow

R: It’s quite a wrenching thing.  Because a week doesn’t go by without something blasting the TV or in the papers.

*** He does work in the sheriffs dept…. he’s not the actual sheriff?

R: He is the sheriff now.  I’m talking about him over 20 years when he was a jailer when all this started.

*** Oh wow.

R: Oh yeah, I’m like family to them.  He’s got a daughter that just got married and she wanted me there like a grandfather in the wedding party.  She informed them all here and I was there at the wedding.  It was full of law enforcement… FBI, marshals, etc… some people were a little nervous of how they’re going to take it when I’m appearing right in the middle of the theme.

*** It would tend to make one a little uncomfortable, but you don’t seem to have any paranoia about any of this.

R: Doesn’t bother me any.  Might bother some, other people get uncomfortable, but it doesn’t bother me… I’m right at home.  You see when the subject comes up and I comment, “Oh yeah that happened to me when I was in prison.”  Well now all of a sudden being that I brought up the subject, now they feel they can answer questions that’s been on their mind otherwise people are afraid to bring up the idea.  I remember one day when we were in a store picking up some stuff and doing some stuff on the floats up here.  Anyway I told the lady where I lived during this time and that time and there was a gap in there for the time I was in prison so I told her I was in prison then.  Oh didn’t make any difference to her.  Didn’t bother her any, but when we got outside one of my kids were with me and he said, “Dad you didn’t have to tell her you were in prison.”  (chuckles)  and I thought Aaawww !!! my, my, my! how dreadful that you can’t hold you’re head up high with  what you do.

*** It’s not like you’re a criminal in prison.

R: Right that was a very… I attended a very exclusive college here.   My brother went to college and even got a degree and become a doctor.  Well I went to college and got the 3rd degree to become a doctor-doctor-doctor, three times over.  (chuckles)  We just went to an exclusive school.

*** Well I’ve definitely conducted my life along these avenues without the knowledge.  Accepting the charges, I did that right off the bat.  In my allocution when I indicated that I didn’t understand fines, back taxes and court costs, but I understand jail.  They did away with the charges on fines, back taxes and court costs.  If I wouldn’t of copped out to understanding jail I probably wouldn’t of had to go there.

R: Yeah if you tell them, I don’t understand what this is all about, they have a rough time then boy.

*** I can see that.  But see in those days I was testifying.  Hell I was on the stand for a long time.  And I made one understanding though that’s come from all of that… When a prosecutor knew I dealt with the bible and all of that she asked, “Well don’t you believe in rendering unto Caesar?”  I said, “I don’t have a problem with that, bring your Caesar in here and he can tell me what belongs to him and I’ll return it and we can all go home.”  What I didn’t understand was that Caesar was there… that was the IRS…

R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah… (chuckling)  Well Caesar… that’s the municipal fund.  See it’s a municipality because it’s part of Rome.

*** Have you seen the Gladiator yet?

R: Yeah I think I saw that a while ago.

*** They ask in there - Well what is Rome?  And they give a couple of definitions in there that I thought were pretty amazing.  One is, it’s the mob. In other words Caesar kept the mob happy by having the coliseum open 150 days out of the year.  I know the commentators mention cause I watched some of the shorts after the movie part and they said, “That would be almost impossible to try and have a coliseum open every other day in this day and age even”.   Anyway the mob so I’ve tried to encourage these younger guys around here that you go to these public activities try not to become part of the mob.  You know, because that’s mob rule again.

R: Yeah.

*** That’s one of the things that came out about Rome being a mob but it’s also in the early part when Caesar was murdered by his son, he and his sister were having conversation about what is Rome and it’s just a figment of your imagination.  It’s in the mind, a concept, it’s nothing you can lay your hand on.

R: Well speaking about watching a movie have you watched the one MacBeth?

*** I’ve got into it cause we have the old version done in about the 40’s… not the new one.  I think the new one is with…. Well I can’t think of his name right now.

R: Okay well there is the example of what happens without the straw man.  See I noticed in there they referred to the deed.  But have you done the deed… send them out on a mission of murder.  They call the murder the deed.  But you see in those days they didn’t have the strawman so they had to murder the real man.  But is that the real one.  Okay here’s the idea of this Jesus thing…You see being an allegory and one thing and another, yet which came first the chicken or the egg?  Or was it the idea of the conception?… was it the intellectual property that was invisible for instance…?

*** I gather that the new testament…  that you open up to the new testament that it’s all capital letters so it’s definitely in the commercial or industrial…

R: Well you see what we’re dealing with is the ship of state.  But you see all of the crew members have gone AWOL.  They’ve jumped ship so it’s sailing as a ghost ship.  That’s the Holy Ghost.

*** I’ve heard that conversation in the past.  I agree with it entirely, but the one ship that doesn’t reach land is the ownership.  I guess that’s something you have to take.  That’s what we’re claiming now.

R: Yeah and we have to take them into port.  We don’t take them into starboard, we have to take them into port and bring them into the dock or docket to unload the provisions.  Because the Christ was born in a manger… and a manger is a place where you feed the cattle.  A manger is a place where you put the feed for the cattle and horses to eat….

*** Okay!  Well we of course are called cattle.

R: that are in the stable… you know when we talk about in the stable?… actually when you get into atomic energy, you are now talking about dealing with radio active material but we’re talking about radio active material that is stable.

***  Well this certainly is interesting R and I won’t keep you any longer…     TAPE ENDS