C-1:  Hi, do you have a minute to ta1k?

R: Yeah - go ahead….

C-1: OK - C-2 is on the 1ine a1so.   C-2:  Hello -

C-1: We've got his Dad in jail again…

R: Ooohhhh!   (light feelings like an oopps but not disastrous)

C-1: We wanted to run some things past you to see if we are on track so C-2 can explain it better to you.

R: Okay

C-2: Well what happened was, it was a credit card case that's been going on for quite some time.  The 1awyer dishonored.  So the Sheriff sent a 1evy notice to 1evy a bank account.  What we did was we accepted the 1evy and put the 1awyer 'payab1e through' on the b1ue draft and paid it through the Sheriff's dept.  The Sheriff stopped by and asked him questions about it.  He exp1ained it was his business p1an that they need to go make presentment and for the adjustment and the sheriff said, "we11 okay and we'11 be getting back to you soon".    It's been about 2 months now and by this time we had gotten a few more offers so we went and put them in the bank in the 1arge envelope with b1ue print, and the bank c1osed the enve1ope--c1osed the account on it.  So what happened was after the c1osing occurred about 2 weeks ago, the sheriffs, I guess, transferred the case to the city.  Then the city served the warrant to pick my Dad up.

R: Oh, Okay.

C-2 What I'm curious about -- What does it mean when there is a venue and the sheriff comes to visit and ask questions and the city serves the warrant.  Does it mean anything?

R: We1l it's a11 one business you see.  I don't know what the answers are.  We're just going to pin point some things here.  The account is NON-TRANSFERRABLE….?

C-2  C-1 Right… right

R: So…. The sheriff is no different than the corporation of the city or whoever.  And whenever there is a warrant issued… see a warrant is basica11y a state matter.  Because a warrant is on1y a search warrant.  But a search warrant that's issued is 1ooking for the order.  So some ones name has to be on the order doesn't it?

C-1 Right

C-2 Right, wou1d that be the judge that signed the order or the corporation that is suppose to get paid?

R: We11 the order is 1ike when you write a check Paid to the Order of ___ , you see… And so the name of the person that is responsib1e for the issue of the order…

C-2 Okay

R: Okay because they want the order for comp1eting their books.  So anyway, when they take someone into custody it's back to the o1d thing of mistaken identity…. See they are taking the strawman.  But there's no difference here see in their mind.  I don't know if I can pick a course of action just coming at it 1ike this….

C-1 We've kind of come up with some different letters…

C-2 What they are coming after him is for forgery of a money order… or simu1ation of a forgery is what they told my Dad.

R: Ya but see anything they say means absolutely nothing.  In fact you have people that are inept and don't have authority to say anything about the outcome of it anyway.  You know, that are making comments to it.

C-1 Like the people in the jail?

R: Right like the people that are handling him.  We've got to figure out what's their point and whose initiating the action.  I know the credit card companies have upped their ante.  In fact I even had a sheriff serve papers on me today.

C-1 Ohhh …lucky you!

R: but you see these are easy to handle because what he does here.  See I told these credit card companies to buzz off or else get a competent collector because I'm not dealing here with all you incompetents.  That's what I told this guy today too.  I said "finally you guys are competent collectors?…  I said you must be the ones that I told them to get.  Now I told them "What I need is your name so that when I make my return, I may want to make my return to you".  I thought about doing it right on the spot but what I wanted to do was to examine everything closer.  So he gives me a business card.  So he is the agent of the company.

C-1 So the sheriff is the agent to the company?

R: Well sure he is.  What he gives me is a business card.  So he is going to get the return.  I'm going to make the return directly to him.  I'm just going to walk over to the Sheriffs office , ask for the guy, and I'm just going to hand him an envelope.

C-1 Do you know what I'm noticing is that when we write checks on private accounts (closed), they are not saying anything about them they are just ignoring them or we got one that said "YOUR CHECK WAS RETURNED FOR MISCELLANEOUS REASONS.

R: So -- it doesn't make any difference.  They're all the same

C-1 Oh okay.  I just think it is kind of cute how they are trying to skirt the issue.

R: I've written hundreds of em and only one time did I have them refer  to it as NON SUFFICIENT FUNDS.

C-1 Oh my gosh.  I think there have been several people from around here that I talk to have received that.  Now with what I've sent out they are just totally ignoring it like they've not received anything.

R: Okay now have they sent any of your checks back to you?

C-2 Yeah, I have a few that they've returned.  I've given them back to them but yeah they do or have returned them.

R: Now have any of them sent you photo copies of them?

C-2 I think they have a computer program that they can type in the routing number.  So what they did with mine is they didn't even endorse the check.

R: Yeah I know, but when you get your check back have they punched the holes in the routing number?

C-2 No I haven't received any like that.

R: Well that's what most of them that I know of have come back that way whenever they legitimately present them for payment.  See now I've got insurance companies that I paid my insurance policy like this for the past two or three years.

C-1 With your private account or the drafts?

R: Well I started out with the drafts and now I've went to the checks.  Same results.  I had one insurance company that sent a couple agents out.  Now I happen to know the lady, they were the local agents.  One of them was the lady that owned the company and the other lady was her daughter who was the accountant.  And when they came they are stating here that they had to have some other form of payment.  Well of course they do!  That means that they have to have your request for the remedy.

C-1 Oh that's part of the administrative procedure you have to do.

R: Sure!  Yeah.  So you see that's what they have to have.  So this lady comes out and I said "Have you got the check that you're talking about?"  Well she didn't have anything with her.  I happened to be sitting down and had my table covered with paper.  I just asked them to set down and told them I'm in the middle of paying all my bills.  (chuckle)  I said, "This is how I do it." And I just showed her.  I just pulled out my check book and I told her, "For you, you have to give me the bill or something so that we can create the indirect evidence…" (in other words we can create the agreement
on paper).  Okay I said "If you haven't got the check, just give me a bill".  She said, "Well have you got your insurance policies?"  I said "Well sure".  So I went and dug them up.  She said just get the insurance company numbers and can I use your phone.  So she took the phone and called the company and got the current amount on there and just wrote it on a piece of paper for each policy for how much it was.  Then she gave it to me and I said "Okay" and took out a envelope draft and made it out to the parties where ever the names fit and I left the payable through and said "there is where your name goes."  I told her if you like here, just print your name in all caps, name and address, and I just put the bill inside the envelope.  I said, "Now this is a private matter.  The bill inside is private and I returned it to you.  That's the money order."  So then when she's getting all the information together, I'm talking to the daughter who is the accountant.  I'm telling her the basis on what I'm doing and she is agreeing with me.

C-1 Wow so you are just telling her basically this a bookkeeping item and that they'll use this when they do their quarterly taxes?…

R: Yeah… she was getting ready to send in her paperwork to the company…quarterly… well must be quarterly.  Well anyway she asks me "Now am I to understand when I send in all my checks to the company for this… she didn't say quarterly, I think she used the word cycle, do I just include this along like I would my checks in the summary of the account?"  I told her "Yeah, just include it in there… cause that's what it is."  I told her "Take a look at what it says on the bottom of the envelope."  Then I explained to her for any added collection charges this provides for it.  We don't have to go through a new deal if there are any additional charges in the collection process this authorizes payment.

C-1 Okay - that's good to hear how you explain it.

R: She said "Oh yeah! Okay! And she was happy as a lark.  She left and I think I've even got a receipt from the company since.

C-1 Then she is an agency for an insurance firm…. Good that works!

R: So you see I know what she was doing and I had to go through this with another company here too.  But I didn't have anybody call on me except over the phone.

C-1 I had some fun the other day.  I get all these calls from Providian.  At first I was mirroring them.  When they would say is** there I would say is ** there and just mimic them with everything they would say for about 4 or 5 of them.  Then I got an idea of maybe I can get some information and decided to challenge them with "who is calling?".. they'd give me some first name and tell me it was a personal banking matter and ask for me again or to get confirmation it was me.  Then I told them "Well how do I know that you are who you say you are?"  Really stumped this one guy who sounded like he was new.  He said "Well I can give me my employee number."  I said "Anyone can make up numbers".  Then he said, "well you can call back here"… I said, "Sure anybody can answer a phone any way they want".  Finally I really had him stumped so he was going to let me talk to the supervisor.  I told him, "No just provide me a copy that you're registered to do business in California, you and Providian, otherwise you don't have permission to even call here."   All this hassle from them for a mere claim of $313.

R: You know I don't think I told you that  about 3 weeks ago, maybe longer… could be up to 5 weeks, that there was a deal on the front page of the Wall Street Journal and you know the WSJ has a couple of columns, kind of on the left center of the page… that gives all the short subjects….

C-1 & C-2 Right…

R: One of those in there had a deal on Walmart, stating that Walmart had cancelled there contract with VISA… their VISA debit card, that's what it was.   Well that's what it is… it is a debit card for a vendor who uses and accepts VISA cards from people like us.  That's what they do, they debit the account.

C-1 Right that is like a charge.

R: Yeah, and I'm almost certain that it come as a result of that action that I took against the Walmart over in Detroit Lakes.

C-1 Oh that's right when they were soliciting you for member or credit card or something?

R:  Because when I looked at that article I thought there is the Walmart saving Grace.

C-2 That was when you run the card and they found something and said the card was no good?

R: Yeah… That was a VISA.

C-1 You did something else with that though… What else did you do?  Didn't you contact somebody on that?

R: Yeah I did make some contacts.  I also talked to the lawyers down in Bentonville, Arkansas.
See the manager of the store here, when he called me he was just totally befuddled.  He was stumbling over his words and everything.   I knew he was in emotional distress.  So when he asked me what I thought he should do.  I told him get a hold of the accountant at the headquarters in Arkansas.   "Oh yes!"  he said, "I can turn it over to their legal department!"  It was such a relief to him.  It was like he had been all bottled up and finally the cork blew.

C-1 Yeah, you put him up against the wall…

R: So anyway, a couple days later, I got a call from an attorney from Bentonville.  We talked about it and he was pleasant enough to talk to.  He wasn't trying to put me on.  Finally he asked me, he said, "Why did I really think I had a claim and what did I think I could do?"  I just replied, "Well I'm just taking you guys into the court of conscience.  You understand that don't you?"  He thought for a moment and said, "Well yes".  … what do you want for remedy?"  and I said, "I'm going to leave that up to you.  Because this action I have here, is somebody high-jacked my property and I said you fellows now have a crack in your superstructure.  And I said I think as long as you understand the court of conscience I think you understand what you are up against".  He didn't really say anything.  I said, "I'll just leave that up to you."   Oh then we got into the conversation and he said, "Did this guy do anything deliberate or malicious?"  I said, "I'll tell you what, this fellow up here probably was innocent, but I said my action, the way I'm taking it here in the court of conscience, I'm going after the person who put him up to it.

C-1 Well yes… it's who writes the policy!

R: YES!  And I said, "That's where the claim rests!".

C-1 You got it…. Get the policy writer.

R: We kind of had just some other lighter conversation and then that was the end of it.  Then I saw this thing in the paper with VISA… I thought Uh hum, I'll bet that's what they had to do to get off the hook, otherwise they would of accumulated some catastrophe in there ranks.

C-1 Now did you accept all that?  I thought that was all verbal?  Did you put something in writing?

R: Oh yes.  I faxed it over to the manager of the store.  I called the store because I had a phone number on the receipt.  So I called over to the store and asked for a fax number and they gave it to me.   Then I handled it on the fax.

C-1 Interesting!  Cause you know what I'm wondering… when they shut us out of being able to write checks because this one gal, we thought she had a bottomless checking account, private account.  But now if she wants to write a check on her open account she can't get one through because they use that Readi Check, or something like that, so they block you from being able to write checks.  What they're doing now is running your check through some machine at the pay point and decline you right there.

R: Well you see they can't do that because it violates the Privacy Act.  If they come back and say "Your check is no good and bla bla bla", well then the question is "Well who say's so?"  You people here are in violation of the Privacy Act.  That's private information.  They're just assuming that you've given it to them you see.  When the fact of the matter displaces the assumption.

C-1 Okay so when they run it through that machine that in fact really isn't the time that check is cleared from the bank.

R: No they can't!  That is just there own business.  That's why I go after the vendor.  See that's how come Walmart got stuck.

C-1 Okay good…. Super!

R: Not only that, that's been 2 or 3 months ago and I haven't seen anything and I've been watching the papers for it to on American Express.  Now American Express is taking a hit, at that particular article for over 800 million dollars… almost a billion dollars.  They still, from my reading the article, I don't think the author of that article or his sources from American Express still doesn't know the source of their problems.

C-1 American Express has been having problems off and on for a long, long time!

R: Well yeah.  That's because of the jerk here that owns it.  Alfred Kelly.  He doesn't pay his bills.

C-1 Laughing… Oh that's right!

R: But I mean… it is about that simple.  He can't operate on that scale here and think he can ignore paying his bills.  Because now this thing is coming home to roost big time.

C-1 Well a lot of these other banks are not paying there bills either.  Like Bank One or Capitol One and Providian.  A lot of these different banks that offer mostly credit cards.  At least you don't see the banks around.  Maybe they are banks on the east coast or some place else.

R: It's just a piece of paper somewhere.

C-1 By the way Saddum Hoseim made a statement and he was talking about something about the accounts for them to do this was against "The World Public Policy".  I thought - Oh my gosh, we have gone Redemption world wide!…. World Public Policy!    Chuckling

R: Sure!  Sure!  Because that's what the United States are.  There is an International Corporation and every state in the world is a state of the United States.  See that's how Hitler financed the second world war.  One side of it.

C-1 We've noticed, like with the two world trade towers both being 110 stories.  That's like 110 watts, that's like the power for the financial centers and then the two together is 220 volts.  Now it is at ground zero.  They are really using all the words that we are using in redemption and making it sound like they are doing accounting.

R: Sure they do, and those people that bit the bullet.  Those people were engaged by those hoodlums that are involved or the instigators of the extortion.  Those people are the ones that paid the price.  But you see they were all in their employ.  They were all the brokers of the commodities.

C-1 Oh, that's probably right.

R: As an example.  I had my other half [his lady friend].  She was discussing this with me about the business of the World Trade Center.  We were watching when Peter Jennings made some comments and he is talking about the attack was on America and America was offended and all that kind of thing.  I told her "My dear, Peter Jennings just lied."  She said, "Oh, how come?"  I said, "He makes all these statements about Americans being attacked and about Americans being threatened and about Americans feeling threatened.  Well I said he is lying."  She said, "Why?"  I said, "Because I am an American and I'm not threatened and those people that took the Trade Center out didn’t threaten me.  That ought to tell you something."

C-1 Very good point.

R: That ought to tell, they weren't after Americans.  They made the attack on the extortioners.   Extortionist invited it under the laws of physics which  is also the golden rule.  The rules of physics hold that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  So I don’t think we even have to entertain anything about participating in the thoughts of violence or otherwise.    Because those who are extortioners, by virtue of their extortion that they commit in fact, they are also raising up their opponents by their own acts.  See it's in the nature of physics and it's also the golden rule.

C-2 It was interesting that Ashcroft, said a couple days ago, after they had bombed on Sunday, now there is 100% chance of counter-attack by their opponents.  They are escalating it upon themselves.

R: Yeah, so anyway as we discuss this I hope that you can start to pick your plan of action from it.  We won't try to do it on the phone because we'd take too many short cuts…

C-1 What we were thinking too, was that we wanted to run by you is we've taken the information from the UCC9 on the plan to sell and we sort of made some different changes on that and sort of privatized it and then the other thing we were thinking of doing was to set up a corporation.

R: Yes! Yes!  I was just going to suggest that… you took the words right out of my mouth.  I don't have time to do it all so that's why I have to suggest someone else throw their weight into this.

C-1 Okay good, we'll handle some of this … when we get finished talking I'll go ahead and fax you some things we've done.

R: Some of the things that we'll be doing with this corporation, we won't be operating like that because we are not going to be doing the extortion like these other corporations are set up to do.  We can probably look into this corporation in any state.  I haven't had time to put my mind into it.

C-1 Is the weather cooperating so that you'll be able to be finished harvesting on schedule?

R: Well yeah it's been good….
      ***   Some small talk

R: There is something I would like to look into further… I think it is some information someone used to get a guy out of jail that had been held for a year without any charges.  I just haven't had the time.    See the problem is these public officers are using barratry and it should be stated so.   These people are bringing empty claims… empty charges.  There are no charges.  We tender these type of payment and they don’t make any presentment to create any evidence that stands against them.  They continue to make new claims and new claims and finally they score from some little oversight we might miss.

C-1 Right… exactly.

C-2 Can I read to you a little sentence that we drafted up?  It's the final sentence of a letter… Therefore having received your proposal to charge this account and not receiving your check your offer is accepted by me.  Either deliver the charges to me and B of A, my fiduciary, or drop the charges and provide me the product of your offer immediately in accordance with HJR-192 for settlement.
That's what I did as the final paragraph.

R: Yeah, you're in the right direction.

C-1  Well what we did in the upper part and what we did in the upper part was tell them they were tax fugitives.  And they are not going to get any tax write offs until this settled up.   I'm going to fax these to you when we're through.  They are short.

R: Right and also start to hound them about your copy of the 1099 OID covering this account.

C-2 I've asked for that in the original  correspondence.

R: Well then what you can do is start to forward some of your correspondence to the State Dept of Revenue and to the Internal Revenue Service.

C-1 Okay we also considered that because the city has also filed felony charges, so we don't know if it is civil or criminal.  The courts have never received any of these papers so we were wondering who all should receive these people.

R: Well you got to be careful you're not making your private matter public.  Just serve the papers right on them at the public court system.

C-2 Would I then walk it in to the prosecutors office?

R: Wait for the open court.  Serve it on them right in the open court room.

C-1  So when they call his Dad's name he can just walk up there and hand it to them.

C-2 What I was thinking of doing is put it in an envelope draft, the certified draft,  putting it all in there. Cause we did the providing information on the bank with the Sec of State, payable through the Secretary of State and having the Prosecutor or the Lawyer, pay at par to the Order of the Court?….

R: Well you see the 'Pay at Par' order is generally against the corporation that is opposing you.  Then 'Pay to the Order of' of that corporate officer that is looking for payment or it doesn't have to be a corporate officer it could be another corporation that's a collector for instance.

C-2 Oh Okay

R: See Pay to the Order of that and then Pay Through the individual.

C-2 Okay… cause I was thinking of going pay through the Secretary of State.

R: Yeah that would probably be all right.

C-2 One of the things that we're point out is the credit card company being a National Association, aren't registered in the state.

R: Right… Okay

C-2 So where I'm putting it in the light that they're not registered to do business in the state but they are in here, they are in the local chamber.  So I'm going to put the information in the state to let them know they are not registered, payable through the Sec. of State.  But then the question arises to have the Corp. pay through the State to the lawyer looking for money, or looking for the funds.

R: Pay to the Order of that lawyer!

C-2  Okay

C-1 Now if his father is there in court, would he be using kind a the same thing of trying to get someone to be the witness for him, like the judge being the eye witness, with the "What does it say?"
For them to be the 2nd witness on his behalf?

R: Well I don't think so.  I think he'd probably do just as well with the blank stare whenever they direct anything at him.

C-1 Say absolutely nothing?

R: Yeah

C-2 So my plans are to go walk in and drop the papers in the guys hands and turn and walk.  My dad will be there cause he's been through this before, twice now, so he's learning to keep his mouth shut.

C-1 And all paper work that he's received so far he's just accepted for value.

C-1 I think he'll do well.  K** has been paying his rent with a sight draft drawn on the Chief of Police and they are dishonoring it and just got served an Unlawful Detainer and now has 5 days to answer so we'll see what happens on that.  Then he's been buying all kind of stuff on COD and then paying with his private account.  So he's having a good time with that… He can tell you more about that when you talk to him.

R: Well I haven't had a chance to talk to anybody lately…

C-1 Okay well we'll let you go and I'm going to fax these to you so don't hang up yet….

     Said our Good-byes and more tapes are coming to keep you all updated on these events.  There are 4 more tapes after this.  Some longer than others but they will keep you updated as things unfold.